Town of Standish, ME - Town Council Meeting Minutes 04/13/04

Town Council Meeting Minutes 04/13/04

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MINUTES

TOWN COUNCIL MEETING

STANDISH, MAINE

TUESDAY, APRIL 13, 2004 - MUNICIPAL CENTER 7:00 PM

CALL TO ORDER

~Pledge of Allegiance was recited.

Councilors present:~ Christy, Hopkins, Lymburner, Nesbitt, Pomerleau, and Simpson.~ Councilor Spencer was excused.

MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING (S)

The minutes from the March 9, 2004 meeting were accepted as presented by unanimous consent.

PETITIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS

There were none this meeting.

REPORT OF THE TOWN MANAGER

Gordon Billington noted the following items:

~ Assessors Office – We are in the middle of a re-valuation being conducted by Vision Appraisal.~ They are about 90% complete with the data collection. Notification letters will be sent in May or June where indicating that they need access to the building to complete the inspection.~ If access is denied the property owner waives the ability for appealing the valuation.~ In early July, valuation letters will be mailed and at that time residents will be able to discuss their property valuation. ~~The Assessor has put together a 40-minute informational tape that is airing on channel 5.~ Once the re-valuation is completed the information will be put up on the web site.~

~Public Safety – There has been an EMS training program and four EMS technicians have just graduated.~ In the area of regional cooperation we have added six members to our District 4, which covers the White’s Bridge area. He said that the Town of Windham has recently acquired a 75’ ladder truck which was added to their inventory.~ Our ladder truck is larger than that and the Windham truck will better negotiate the camp roads off White’s Bridge Road.

~Recreation Department – Recently offered a bus trip to Boston, the available seats were spoken for in a day and a half.~ On April 17 the Recreation Department will hold a sale for sporting equipment as a fundraiser for the skate park. ~He said that there will be recreation events during vacation week the theme is the “All American Camp-out” and the cost is $45.

~Public Works – The Boundary Road work is well under way. The River Road should be done by the end of June.~ Bids are going out for Cape Road work.~ Street sweeping will start about April 15.

Gordon Billington introduced the Planning Administrator, Bud Benson, who would give the Departmental Report.

Bud Benson said that there are very few building lots available in Town.~ One thing that he wanted to note was that the Cluster Subdivision were bringing water to subdivisions in town. In fact, one developer came back to change their approval to be considered for the Cluster Subdivision.~ He said that there was one large subdivision on Boundary Road that is a Cluster Subdivision. ~He said that there are a number of things going on now that they are working on.~ One thing is they are working on the documentation process to improve availability of records.~ He went on to explain that they are planning to apply for a grant, which will help with overlaying of the tax maps on the aerial maps of the Town.

Councilor Christy questioned how long would it be until that 130 – 140 subdivision is completed?

Bud Benson said that it will be about 120 lots that will be developed at a rate of about 15 lots per year.

Councilor Nesbitt asked how many starts will there be next year?

Bud Benson said that the there are two larger projects that the Board is working on now.~ He said that it does take time to go through the approval process.

Councilor Lymburner asked if when they review a subdivision if they looked at the range ways and take that information into consideration.

Bud Benson said that the Board recently asked that the Wildlands Subdivision subtract the area of the range ways from the total acreage. ~~To be fair, when a developer uses a range way they only have frontage on one side of the range way.

Councilor Lymburner asked Gordon Billington if someone wanted to make a contribution to the Recreation Department equipment sale how would they do that?

Gordon Billington said to call the Linda Brooks at the Town Hall for additional information.

PUBLIC HEARINGS~

40-04 Application Submitted by Reel Excitement, Inc. dba Victory Lane for Renewal of a Pool Room License [Simpson]

Chair Simpson explained that this was al full year renewal for the applicant. He then asked if the application was in order?

The Clerk said that it was.

After a Public Hearing without additional Council or Public discussion the above noted application was approved and the hearing was closed.

A copy of the application is on file at the Town Clerk’s Office.

VOTE: 6 Yeas – 0 Nays

COMMITTEE REPORTS

Councilor Christy said that on April 20 he will meet with Dan Stewart and Ken Cole to discuss the range ways and then will bring that information back to the Council.~~ He said on April 22 the Range Way Committee will meet with the Comprehensive Planning Committee to bring everyone up to date on what has been done on the Range Road and Range Ways.

Councilor Pomerleau explained that that the Capital Improvements Committee was planning to meet but did not since Councilor Spencer is out of town and Councilor Lymburner disclosed a conflict of interest. He said that the bid on the field maintenance would be selected by the whole Council.~ He said that he would like to have Roger speak on the Boundary Road project and the Fire Chief speak about the refurbished fire truck.~

Roger Mosley said that Boundary Road is well under way.~~ He said that the road from the Hamlin Cemetery to Carroll Avenue is nearly completed as far as the ground work. The area near the ledges is being worked on now.~ The grinding and resurfacing of the road should be started as early as next week and should be completed by May 15.

Chief Butkus said that the Emergency One was refurbished by receiving new frame rails, corrosion repair and re-painted.~ The Department is very pleased with the work and this will extend the use of the truck for up to seven years.

Councilor Pomerleau said that the Town spent $25,000 to refurbish this truck but saved $360,000 by not having to by a new truck.

Councilor Hopkins said that the Portland Water District Steering Committee met last Wednesday to review the Memorandum of Understanding and the feedback from the Trustees.~~ She explained that before them tonight is the Committees’ recommendation is on the agenda.~ She explained that the land adjacent to the Northeast Road Extension was also discussed which will also be discussed in orders 38-04 and 39-04.~ She said that they also discussed the stewardship of Sebago Lake which will be discussed at a symposium to be held in May.~ She thanked Councilor Nesbitt, Representative Moore and Gordon Billington for their work on this issue. ~~She went on to say the Personnel Committee will meet to review Personnel Policy for necessary amendments for the June Council meeting

Councilor Nesbitt said that the Public Safety Committee will hold a program at Bonny Eagle High School regarding Road Rage.~ The speaker will hold a session for the students and then an evening session for the general public.~ First Technology is a sponsor of this program which will be beneficial to all aged drivers. ~He said that on May 1 they will hold a car seat safety inspection from 10 am until 2 pm at the Town Hall.~~ He said that a program is available for residents to receive car seats at no charge if they qualify based on their income.~~ He said that on May 15 the Kiwanis Club will hold their bike rodeo.~ As part of that program the Safe Community Coalition will hold a peewee rodeo.~ He said a tentative date of June 2 has been discussed to hold a meeting for the Route 113 corridor program.~ He said that the Appointments Committee will be reviewing upcoming appointments for the new fiscal year and applications will be accepted through April 30.~ Interested parties can apply online or call Mary.~ He said that the last item is regarding the Mountain Trail meeting that was attended by Councilor Lymburner, Linda Brooks and him.~ He said that they are discussing the potential extension of the trail.~ He said that if Standish is interested in having the next phase of the trail in Standish we have to submit a transportation enhancement grant by July 31.~ A workshop should be held to review the information and potential costs.

Chair Simpson said that the Community Center report will be on the agenda at the May meeting.~ He said reporting for the Finance Committee the Town is in good financial status right now.~ Our cash flow is good.~ It appears that the cash flow will be close but we should be okay it the mortgage companies start to send in escrow payments. ~He said that the budget was not completed in time so there will be a Special Council Meeting later in the month to pass the budget to the Budget Committee.~ He said the next thing was the Recycling Committee has not met, but if any of you are following the news in the past couple of days you know that RWS is in trouble financially.~ The former mayor of Portland who is now the President of the Trustees took a proposal to the Portland City Council to refinance the RWS debt again this year.~ He said that there is a lot of opposition to refinancing, although there is some support. He said that the tipping fees may go from $128 to $165 a ton.~ He noted that in our budget we have $128 for this.~ He said that they also want to restructure the Board of Directors.~ He said that this needs to be discussed at a workshop.~ We have one more year in the contract with RWS and we have $5,000 in the budget to do a cost analysis to see what direction we need to take next year with solid waste. ~~He said that we need to also discuss the debt that we have for the Ross Grant.~ He said that we should consider buying out of that project.

Councilor Hopkins said that the PWD Steering Committee on April 15 has been cancelled and will be rescheduled.

CONSENT CALENDAR

Moved by Lymburner Seconded by Christy to waive the reading of the orders. (Unanimous)

41-04 Appointments-Town Council Confirmation of Political Parties Nomination of Ballot Clerks and Membership to the Voter Registration Appeals Board [Nesbitt]

42-04 Approval of Election Clerks and Election Warden for June 8, 2004 Elections [Nesbitt]

43-04 Authorize Change in Voter Registration Hours Prior to June 8, 2004 Elections [Simpson]

VOTED ON THE CONSENT ITEMS COLLECTIVELY:~ 6 Yeas – 0 Nays

UNFINISHED BUSINESS

27-04 Authorize Easement Deed with Portland Water District for Culvert Installation on Northeast Road Extension (Tabled at 3/9/04 Meeting) [Simpson]

Moved by Hopkins Seconded by Christy to take this item off the table. (Unanimous)

Chair Simpson explained that there are two orders following this order that take the easement issue into consideration.~ He said that he would entertain a motion to indefinitely postpone this order.

Moved by Hopkins Seconded by Christy to indefinitely potstone this order.

Attorney Chris Neagle representing Portland Water District said that he wanted to make sure that the next two items were regarding the easements, but they didn’t appear to address the rebuilding of Northeast Road.~ He wondered at what time that would be discussed?

Chair Simpson said that you will find the there is no interest in allowing that road to be moved at the present time.

Chris Neagle said that we have made a formal request for you to do that and if you are going to ignore that rather than deny it, he said that he wanted to be clear on that issue. ~He said that he didn’t see any orders on the agenda that address that request and that is why he was raising the issue.

Chair Simpson said that it is addressed indirectly in the following order.

He said that as long as he is not waiving his rights, he said to go right ahead.

VOTE ON MOTION TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE: (Unanimous)

38-04 Authorize an Easement for an 18” Roadway Culvert 360 feet Southwest of the MDOT Mountain Division Trail Right-of-Way within the Bounds of the Northeast Road Rangeway as Shown on the Portland Water District Proposed Plans [Simpson]

Chair Simpson said that as he mentioned before we took the proposal that was presented by the Water District is now separated into two orders.~ This is one is regarding the culvert that is closest to where the fire barn was located.~

Chris Neagle said that was representing the Portland Water District.~ He said that he would like to address both items at the same time.~ He said that there are three things that Portland Water District would like to do with the permission of the Public Works Directors but welcomed the Council support. That would be to rebuild the traveled way so it’s back inside the right-of-way limits of Towns’ public way. He said that he thought that was good idea. He said that idea stands alone.~ He said that the second request which is before the Council right now which is in respect to a culvert.~ This culvert would be designed to bring the water that currently runs down Northeast Road and drains into this isolated wetland across the road brought to be properly treated.~ He said that he went down there tonight and said that he was glad it was raining.~ He said that there was a whole lot of water that runs down the ditch.~ It runs down the road and then in the wetland.~ He said that he hoped that they could all agree that running the road surface water directly into a wetland is a bad idea.~~ He said that in this plan wants the District to build the culvert across the 99’ right-of-way.~ He said that he was not aware of another road culvert in the State of Maine that’s designed to deal with surface water drainage in the right-of-way.~ He said that they are designed to pick up water in the ditch and move it across the road to another ditch.~ He said that what you are asking us to do is to build a culvert that is 100’ long that serves no purpose.~ He said that it will not collect the water and it will continue to run into the wetlands.~ He said that in all due respect to the Public Works Director, we think that requesting us to build this culvert 99’ wide defies his limited knowledge on how you deal with road culverts. ~He said that the third culvert that they want to build would span the entire right-of-way and would go from one pond retention pond to the other.~ He said that he would like to touch on some of the legal issues and where they stand on them.~ He said that the question that has been bounced around here is who owns Northeast Road.~ He said we obviously have our different opinions. He said that he hoped that they would agree with the most recent legal opinion from Ceto Selinger that it is really irrelevant. ~He said that another legal issue that is out there is whether the right-of-way is six rods or eight rods.~ He said that he had asked for two legal opinions from your attorney both of which state 6 rods.~ He said that hopefully that won’t have to be debated any more.~ A clearly interesting legal issue that has to be resolved is whether or not the Town has any permanent rights to the parking areas on the Portland Water District land.~ He said that he knew that you had received an opinion from Ceto Selinger that addresses that issue.~ He said that all he can say at this point is that is to be determined.~ He said that we are not here to decide from his prospective whether to build the Ecology and Education Center whose application is pending before the Code Officer.~ He said that hopefully the Code Officer will determine that that application is complete and rule on it and that’s really why we are here.~ He said that they think that is a better forum for the parking lot question to be addressed.~ He said that we are not here to decide who owns Northeast Road, whether the Town holds a public easement.~ He said that frankly as he has told the town attorney he thinks the County may control the repair rights.~ But, we are agreeing to agree for this request that the Town holds a public easement. ~He said that he wanted to correct something for the record he said that he was not aware of any evidence that the Town has ever abandoned its interest in Northeast Road Extension since it was created by the County Commissioner’s in ’33 and the Town was the allegedly given control in 60’s.~ He said that there have been some public statements attributed to his client thereby the Town had abandoned Northeast Road Extension.~ He said that he has found no evidence to that and the Distinct is not claiming that you have abandoned anything at this time. He said that we are not here to talk about the boat launch at the end of Northeast Road.~ He said that operates due to a 1988 license from the Water District that can be revoked at any time, but we are not here to talk about that.~ He said what we are trying to do is get the approval of the Council under two different statutes; one is to affect drainage adjacent to public roads which is the first culvert request.~ He said that they believe that the statutes require that we get Council approval.~ He said that they also believe that the utility location permit that they filed under 2503 that you can approve these culverts. He said that you can debate whether or not they are facilities. We clearly think that these are facilities that are part of the Water District’s effort not necessarily to distribute water but to collect water that can be distributed.~ He said to get to the bottom line and you guys can decide what happens next.~ He said first let me touch on a couple of political issues just right out there.~ He said that the Town though it’s administration with the District’s staff through discussions that have been held at the Steering Committee have made it very clear that the Town does not want the Ecology and Education Center located as proposed by the District. He said that we understand that and we understand the primary concerns of the Town are the loss of the what they view as some public parking for people that use the boat ramp and possibly related to what Ceto Selinger calls the access road.~~ He said again, he thought that there is an efficient forum to resolve those issues, but it requires the Council to work with us.~ He said that he wanted to point out that politically that if you go to the boat launch you see the Homeland Security Act sign there and that Federal law states we are in a yellow code which means we’re dealing with a very serious national security issue. ~He said that since 9/11 as you well know there is heightened scrutiny by the Federal government on his client to make sure that the source of water is not contaminated through some terrorist act.~ He said that is a significant thing that they are trying to address through this project.~ He said that is not directly related to these culverts but it is part of the admission that I have just heard your Planner Director talk about how much you welcome having public water so you can have Cluster Subdivisions. He said that the public water comes from this lake. ~~He said that finally, with the Ecology and Education Center, we believe that is the application that is the best, clearest, and most efficient way to deal with some of these unresolved legal issues. ~He said that he wanted to again to pass out something that he gave them last time and it was a copy of a suggested order.~ He said that very few words have changed since the paper that was handed out a month ago.~ He said that he would talk about rebuilding Northeast Road first.~ He said that he knew it was not part of this agenda item but could be.~ He said that they thought that it would be reasonable for the Council to approve the application to rebuild the traveled way in the Northeast Road Extension right-of-way shown on their plans. ~He said that what he has added since the last one is subject to meeting road specifications approved by the Public Works Director.~ He said that his client has made it clear to him that if the Public Works Director would prefer to have the traveled way dead in the center of that 99’ easement they would put it there.~ He said that his client has made it clear that if the Public Works Direct wants that paved so it’s more easily maintained by the town trucks, his client would pave it.~ He said that the point is his client is willing rebuild the traveled way at his clients expense and no expense to the Town to put this road to whatever standards and whatever place your Public Works Director thinks is best.~ He said that standing alone apart from all the political stuff that ought to be something that the Council shouldn’t ignore or refuse to discuss.~ He said that someone is coming forward and offering to rebuild your road at their expense to upgrade it and improve it.~~ He said that the taxpayers would be happy to know that was going happen.~ He said that they will ask you again to vote to approve that to whatever standards or specifications that your Public Works Director thinks are reasonable. ~He said that in respect to the road culvert and item on order 38-04, he said that he told you a minute ago why requiring it to be more than 99’ long makes no sense.~ You might as well deny it because that culvert is designed to move water from one side of a 20’ to 25” road to the other.~ He said how you can ask us to make it 99’ long and serve that purpose defies this knowledge and his sense of simple common sense.~ He said that one of your Councilors suggested that this came from the Steering Committee and he didn’t want you to think that the Water District members of the Committee approve of this. ~He said that we want to do something that’s good for the environment and that’s all it’s designed to do.~~ It’s designed to take water out of a wetland and put it to a place where it is treated.~ He said that the seconded recommended Council vote would be to approve the application to install the road culvert 360 feet from the railroad tracts as shown on the plans and where it is only about 25’ long.~ He went on to say provided that the District can show that the surface water that runs through this culvert that runs east to west will not enter Standish Brook either because of the construction of the E & E Center or modifications acceptable from the Public Works Director.~ ~He said that they are trying to keep water that is contaminated out of the wetlands.~ He said that hopefully we can all agree that environmentally that is a good goal.~~ He said that he would ask them to reconsider your requirement that we make it so long to serve no legitimate purpose. ~He said that he would like to speak on the other culvert.~ He said that with respect to the other culvert that connects the two retention ponds your proposed order suggests that it would interfere with the Town’s public parking areas.~ He said that he would point out that literally it wouldn’t.~ He said that it’s under ground if we put that culvert there and never get the right to build the retention pond it’s designed to serve then it will not interfere with the Towns parking rights.~ He said that he didn’t know where they got the factual idea that a pipe buried six feet underground and re-covered will interfere with your parking rights.~ He said that in fact it will not interfere with the Town’s parking rights what might interfere with your parking rights is the building of the Ecology and Education Center. ~~He said that there is a process where that can be decided and issues related to it can be resolved.~ He said that the process is your Code Officer will make a decision based on their completed application.~ He said that for example if your Code Officer denies it then the District can appeal that to the Zoning Board of Appeals.~ If the Zoning Board of Appeals denies it then it could go to Superior Court.~ In relatively efficient and inexpensive from a legal stand point the ruling could be appealed. ~He said that all these issues can be sorted out quickly, easily and efficiently.~ He said to get there we need this Council to give us some kind of conditional approval so we can at least get there.~ He said that if you go down the road that you appear to be headed on and you deny this particular culvert because it will interfere with your parking areas.~ He said then we will appeal that to the County Commissioners for the Statue and the Commissioners may think that the Town is not acting rationally.~ He said that we may have to go to court and if we finally win that battle we’ll be back in front of the Code Officer starting a different battle that has to do with the public parking rights.~ He said that he is here to encourage you to see the big picture and not get so focused on whatever displeasure you have about the District goals and policies that may conflict with the Town’s.~ He said that we are just asking to rebuild the road and put in two culverts.~ The culverts have huge strings attached, we never get the Ecology and Education Center approved we will probably never put in the culverts or something else happens relating to the surface water treatment.~ He said that he knew that the Council according to his client is trying to do everything in its power to stop the Ecology and Education Center.~ He said that is your privilege if that’s what the people in this Town want you to do.~ He said that there is an easy and efficient way to do it and there is another way to do it that has you asking us to make the 99’ culverts to serve a 20’ wide road.~ He said that he just didn’t get it to be perfectly frank.~ He said that he understood their concerns about public parking but he didn’t understand why you are asking us to make a culvert 60’ longer than any culvert that your Public Works Director has ever used for his roads.~ He said that if he can show him one culvert in town that meets this recommendation he would eat his words.~ He said that culverts are designed to deal with road drainage and not legal right-of-way limits. ~He said that he is urging this Council to take a small step, a tiny step, toward the Water District in an effort that they could resolve these issues in a rational efficient forum and in a process that they should be resolved.~ He said in the context of an application that is in front of your Code Officer and an appeal that may follow normal processes. ~He said that in all due respect the reasons that he sees in these draft orders defies common sense. ~He said that it is plain and simple and if that’s what the taxpayers who elected you want you to do then you’re going to do it.~~ He said that then we will have more expensive and more extended legal process to resolve these issues than is necessary.~ He said that the District and its Trustees only ask you for a fair opportunity to proceed with the application.~ He said that they want to rebuild the road at their expense for your benefit.~ He said that is a stand-alone proposition.~ He said if someone other than the Portland Water District you would say thank-you.~ He said that apparently because it is the Portland Water District you want to make up reasons not to do it. ~~He said that they want to put in a road culvert to protect…..

Councilor Christy called for a point of order.~ He said that the continual reference that we are listening to and the explanation that we are coming up with various reasons just because we don’t like the Portland Water District.~ He said that you have mentioned that twice now and that doesn’t serve your case very well to supposedly reminding us of something that we haven’t made our minds up about.~ He said that everything that we have done in the last year and a half has been one of a cordial collaborative nature.~ He said that he speaks very closely to the beach situation which is ongoing and a positive step forward.

Chair Simpson said that that the point of order is that he is repetitive.

Councilor Christy said that he takes offence his statements.

Chair Simpson said that he shared the concerns.

Chris Neagle said that at the last meeting he heard this Council say publicly many things that they were angry with the District about. ~How the District had not tried to work with them.~ He said that he has made his pitch and would answer any questions.

Councilor Christy said that he would like a clarification.~ He said that he wished that he had walked a little further tonight and looked at the culvert.~ He said that there are some in Town that have done that because we are very concerned about historical value in the railroad turnaround and also the history of the area.~ He said that he wanted to go on record to say that the all of this Council has supported the Ecology Park down in this area.~ He said that we went on board unanimously to support a plan that was presented to the Water District.~ He said that you came down here and looked and the water went into a wetland. He explained that a little further all of this drains into a basin.~ He said that as far a 9/11 is concerned as soon as we heard we were 100% behind closing the lake.~ He said that everyone in the Town knows that.~ He said that the sign may be down there but we have been 100% behind the District in anything that they have mentioned to us as far as trying to safeguard that watershed and Sebago Lake as far as the water goes.~ He said that we support a park down there as it was explained in the beginning.~ A plan came to us that we didn’t like so we recommended another one. ~Which was unanimously disapproved by the Trustees.~~ He said that he could respect that.~ He said to say that there is a lot of political stuff that has gone on over the years that is in the eyes of the beholder, you can ask the old timers, you can ask the young folks. He said that as far as he was concerned nobody has pushed any harder for stewardship of Sebago Lake than yours truly and a lot of people in this board.~ He said that somehow the idea of joint stewardship just thrown into this political stuff.~~ He said to have fourteen different issues brought in when we are looking at one and to say that don’t relate to one another we’re going back to the original statement where you said that I’m going to mention this but is doesn’t relate.~ He said that he finds that very confusing.~ He said that you are asking us to zero in on one issue and he’ll do that but to keep on referring to these other things that just exasperate the situation that you say is supposedly going on with the Water District.~ He said that he is just a person that is reacting on behalf of a lot of people in town that feel that way.~ He said that he was working very hard like others on the Steering Committee are to work with the Water District.~ We are not here to hinder, we are trying to look out of the best interest of the Town.~ He said that you said it very nicely that area down there is not a ramp issue it is a right-of-way issue that we have had for years that goes to the water.~ He said that it is one of two that we have and it is very precious to us.~ He said that he thought everyone in town feels the same way.~ He said that here we are on Sebago Lake and we have no frontage to speak of.~ He said that it is not a political thing it is something that we feel very deeply about. ~We are very concerned about the frontage and what goes on.~ He said that he was very quick to say that the stewardship of Sebago Lake his responsibility and of everyone else here. ~He said that we are here to work with the Water District not to hinder them at all.~ He said that you came across that we are her to hinder.~~ He said answer my question if you can. He said that you came across rather strongly.

Chris Neagle said that he was trying to figure out why the Council seems so negative about this particular request.~ He said that he apologized if he offended him.~ He said let’s throw out history and start fresh today.~ Okay, right this minute.~ He said that you have talked about how important the access to the boat launch is to the Town. He said that he is he tonight with a proposal at the District’s expense improve that access.~ To upgrade it and make it better.~ He said that he would think therefore the Town would like that.~ He said that if access to the lake is important and you want to preserve it and we want to improve the road and pave it and make it even nicer that you would support that.~ But, yet I’m hearing from the Council that you are not here to discuss it.~ He said correct me if I am wrong.~ He said that he draws the conclusion that you are not interested in having us upgrade and improve your access to the lake.

Councilor Christy said that we haven’t voted yet.

Chris Neagle said that he agreed with everything that he had said and every policy that you articulated. He said that he didn’t understand why he wouldn’t support these requests. ~He said that he knew that he hadn’t spoken and you haven’t voted and he respected that.~ He said that the information in the proposed orders that we are debating, he said that he honestly didn’t understand.

Councilor Hopkins asked a question about the process.~ She said that we have an order before us and she would like to respond as Councilor Christy did.~ She asked if they would have that opportunity to speak. ~~She said that she felt that we were being on insulted on their intelligence and the legal threats so forth. She said that she would like to address but she wasn’t sure how he wanted to handle it.

Chair Simpson said that he had allowed him to address both orders at the same time.~ He said that he also had some questions of him.~ He said that we are still in the public participation portion.

Chris Neagle said that he wanted to say that he had not insulted anyone’s intelligence.~ He said that he didn’t believe that he had made any statements about any of their abilities or anyone’s decision-making powers. He said that he had only publicly questioned the rational behind the reason in the proposed orders.~ He said that he was sorry if you felt insulted it wasn’t directed to you personally or anyone on this Council.

Chair Simpson said that the comments that he picked up on were three times you said it defies common sense were the words that you used pertaining to the Council on these orders.

Chris Neagle said that then you can explain to me how he is wrong about his common sense.

Councilor Lymburner said that she would like to try.~ She said that you speak about putting a culvert across the complete right-of-way; a 100’ culvert and you can’t understand why we would want that.~ She said that we are being put in a position where there will be no parking for folks that want to use the boat launch unless we use our right-of-way.~ She said that means that that we have to build up the whole 100’ right-of-way, now if we go to do that, if that ever happens, and she was not saying that it will, but there is a possibility, do we now have to go in and take up your culvert and replace it with a culvert of our own.~ She said that is why we need the complete width for the culvert.~

Chris Neagle said thank you for that explanation.~ He said that he guessed his only comment would be projects can only be designed to meet existing conditions.~ He said that the existing condition is that they propose is to address the current width of the road of approximately 25’.

Councilor Lymburner said that you can’t ignore the fact that this is happening in conjunction with the plans of the Portland Water District that they have done there and if that goes through we will need to use all of our right-of-way.

Chris Neagle said that he would like to suggest a possible way to address that legitimate concern.~ He said that would be to add another proviso that if the Town or anyone else improves the traveled way so that it is wider than it current existing width then the District will pay to extend the culvert to whatever length is necessary. So if in fact, at some point in the future after this culvert is put in there comes a time when it is not long enough then you can force the District to make it longer.~ He said but until then it serves no purpose.~

Chair Simpson said that several times tonight it has been mentioned by you and on this side of the table the issue of the right-of-way down there.~ ~He said that we don’t look at it as a right-of-way.~ That 99’ is owned by the Town in fee simple interest.~ He said that the loss of parking has been mentioned.~ He said that the loss of parking is the area that we have used for years.~ He said that Councilor Lymburner is absolutely right that if the Ecology Center goes through and we loose that parking and we would have to put the parking in the 99’ roadway. He said that we have had two opinions one from our attorney and one from Ceto Selinger relative to our rights down there to the existing parking lot and including the cross over street that run between Northeast Road Extension and Maple Street.~ He said that we view that as the area where you want to put the Ecology Center, where your client wants to put the Ecology Center and if that be the case those retention ponds down there would be put into what is now our land as we see because of the use for well over forty years.~ He said the existing conditions as Councilor Lymburner had said down there right now, granted the would be to put the culvert just underneath where the right-of-way going right now, but, you have an application before us right now with our CEO to put that Ecology Center in there.~ He said that he thought that we have the right to look at that as down the road somewhat.~ He said that the order that we have before us—38-04 says that we would allow that culvert the full length of the 99’, if it is a six-rod road rather than an eight-road. He said that we have opinions there too.~ It does say that be it further ordered that the Town Manager and~Public Works Director are authorized to negotiate with the advice of the Town Attorney for an easement that fully crosses said range way and return said the same to the Town Council for final approval.~ He said that this order gives that culvert across there to take water from one side of the road to the other to land that you own.~ He said that we agree with you that water shouldn’t be going down into the wetlands. So we are willing to give you the right to put that culvert in. He said that he agreed with Councilor Christy we have never been opposed to a park down there.~ He said that the first park was an excellent proposal.~ Then it was withdrawn and then they gave us another one. He said all that we asked was that they go back to the original park called the Duke Engineering Plan, which they have denied. He said that plan gave us more parking than we would have under these conditions. He said that as far as this order goes that’s fine. He said that one of your first questions on the second order was what about replacing the road.~ He said that the reason that you don’t that in either order is because of the two opinions we have relative to the existing parking area down there, the crossover roads and the range way.~ He said that we have some rights down there and we are willing to defend those rights.~ He said that he heard kind of hint at legal action but towards the end you definitely say that it was a threat. ~He said that you came right out and said legal action may be necessary.~ You said that it would be costly and we recognize that too.~ He said that we want to defend what we think is right and defend our people in town who have elected us.~ He said that the reason that he wanted to see the other culvert denied because he wanted to see what happened in the application process.~ In that point of time it would be part of the plan that goes to the Planning Board.~ The Planning Board would then come to us to see if we wanted the culvert there from one detention pond to another.

Chris Neagle said that if you deny the second request then we cannot go to the Code Officer.~ Because he has deemed our application incomplete.~ That’s why we are here. He said if you deny the second request then we cannot go to the Code Officer.

Chair Simpson said that he would stand by the Code Officer.

Chris Neagle said that you ought to let the Code Officer do his job.

Chair Simpson said that he thought that he had.

Chris Neagle said that the Code Officer has said that you do not have permission from the Council to put in this culvert so he can’t begin to consider the application.~ Mr. Neagle said that they had come forward with a proposal that you approve a culvert only if the Code Officer later approves the Ecology and Education Center. Only if. ~He said by denying order 39-04 we will never be before the Code Officer.~ Unless he changes his mind he will say that you don’t have permission to put in that culvert how can I review the project.

Chair Simpson said that we see…

Chris Neagle that’s what he has told me, and the attorneys back him up.~ Mr. Neagle said that he is trying to find a way to get to the Code Officer, so the Code Officer can make his determination on the bigger project.~ He said that he is not asking this Council to do anything that’s suggests that they take any position on the pending application.~ He said that they are trying to allow you to do it in a way that gets this in front of the person who can deal with all the issues at one time.~ He said that he was not trying to threaten legal action. He said that the District is determined to protect its interest and obviously we have some conflicts.~ There is no doubt about that. He said that you have got no opinions that he has seen that says that the Town owns the road. Mr. Neagle said that the Town attorney had told him that he believes that the Town does not own the road.

Chair Simpson said that Mr. Cole is not here to defend himself on that one.~ He said that he would make one more comment…..

Chris Neagle said that let me point out that you told me that you didn’t want the parking affected and that is what you are trying to protect. He said that he guessed that this proposal, these culverts and the rebuilding of the road would not affect the Town’s parking.

Chair Simpson said that the second culvert would make an affect because it would put a retention pond on land that we feel we have rights that we’re gathered over the last forty years.~ That’s the reason that it has been denied.

Chris Neagle said that application is not in front of this Council.~ That application that affects the public parking is in front of the Code Officer.~ Mr. Neagle said that the Code Officer has said that he will not make a decision on this application until it is complete.~ He said that the only way it can be complete is if the Council approves it with a proposed conditional approval which only says we’ll let you go to the Code Officer so he can decide all the issues at one time.~ He said that’s what he talks about in terms of efficiency. He said that if you approve order 39-04 simply denying the request then the Code Officers application is dead.

Councilor Lymburner said that on the second order if you read the last whereas, we believe that we have rights to land from legal opinions down in that area.~ She said that if you install the second culvert then you interfere with the lands that we believe are ours. She said in as far as the rebuilding of the Northeast Road until these issues are settled there is no reason to discuss it.~ She said if we come to a point where we approve both culverts we can discuss it at that time.~

Chris Neagle said that he respected her opinion but he wanted to make the point that the parking areas are not threaten not by this pipe six feet under ground but by the two retention ponds that are to be built above them. He said that you are not being asked to rule on those ponds.~ He said that by giving approval to do it only if the Code Officer gives us that approval, we can address this fairly.~ He said that he didn’t think that heading off to the County Commissioners to get to the Code Officer is the efficient way to go.

Councilor Lymburner said that it maybe.

Councilor Nesbitt said that even though you have said that you say focus on the culvert you made very strong pitch that under the total umbrella of Homeland Security and the yellow alert that this was the basis for everything. He said that his question was how are the culverts directly or indirectly related to protection of the lake based on the Homeland Security?~

Chris Neagle said that the District wants to do something with its land to both promote ecology and education and to control what is now unlimited uncontrolled access on it’s their private property. ~

Councilor Lymburner asked with culverts?

Chris Neagle said that not with culverts that’s why he addressed that it is not relative with this issue.~ He said that he was only trying to point out the larger mission of the District which is trying to fulfill in good faith to everyone that drinks their water. He said that these culverts will not affect your parking areas.~ The road that we are building will not affect your parking areas.~ He said that we respect your right to try and defend your parking areas, but, he said in his view you are reaching to put it into this…

Councilor Nesbitt said that you brought it up and it clearly shows that it is all related.~~ He went on to say if you put a 25’ culvert in there is there an open ditch on the side that runs, if you put the culvert in what is on the other side of the culvert, when it runs out where does it go?

Chris Neagle said that right now there are no improvements there.

Councilor Nesbitt asked what are the plans? Because you will be in the 99’ right-of-way.

Chris Neagle said that the plans are to have it drain into a retention pond.

Councilor Nesbitt asked how will it get from the end of the 25’ to your land?

Chris Neagle said will drain into a ditch, which is shown on the application that was filed.~ We want to build a ditch mostly on the Districts own land.

Councilor Nesbitt said if we were to build the road in middle of the 99’ right-of-way and its only 25’ like you are talking about his calculations suggest that culvert would not be long enough. ~~He said now common sense if we are using a little bit of it, he said which we tend to do, would be impassable.~ So in effect you have denied the access and use of that 99’.

Chris Neagle said that if the Town later wanted to …..

Councilor Nesbitt said that he’s not talking about later he’s talking about now.

~Chris Neagle said that we have plans that are in front you that show that water passing through a long ditch onto the District’s private property.

Councilor Lymburner asked are you putting a ditch on our land?~

Chris Neagle said that it’s not on you land it’s on the Districts land. ~Part of the ditch is in the Districts 99’ right-of–way.~

Councilor Nesbitt asked how does water get from end of the 25’ culvert to the edge of the right-of-way.

Chris Neagle said trough the ditch shown on the plan.

Councilor Nesbitt said so it’s an open ditch?

Chris Neagle said yes.~

Councilor Nesbitt said that is unacceptable to him.

Chris Neagle said that there is an open ditch on the other side.~ It would be the same kind of ditch that the Public Works Director built on the east side.~ An identical ditch will be built on the west side.

Councilor Nesbitt said that explains it and the last question is if the first culvert was approved, you are totally dependent upon the second culvert being active in order to move that water.~ In other words you can’t move the water from the through the first culvert and just leave it sitting there. ~So, it’s the two culverts or none at all, is that correct?

Chris Neagle said no that’s not correct.

Councilor Nesbitt said what happens with the water on the Standish Brook side does the EPA approve of the water going across there and not coming back.

Chris Neagle said that there are two ways; to answer your question both the DEP and MDOT~fully support this effort.~ He said that when the water gets to the Standish Brook side the proposal~that~he suggested says we can’t build the culvert unless one of two things happen.~ He said that if either one of these things don’t happen than they can’t put the culvert in.~ He said that we may get the water here and treat it some other way to be determined.~ He said that he was aware of discussions between the Town and MDEP and the Water District to further protect Standish Brook. He said that this is a separate issue.~ He said that it is at least possible if the E & E Center never got built the water could be handled in a better way than it currently is before it enters the watershed. He said that he didn’t know what those plans are and the District hasn’t designed them. He said that is why he put the language in his proposed order which says provided that the District can show that the surface water that runs through the culvert that runs east to west will not enter Standish Brook.

Councilor Nesbitt said if the ditch runs along the 99’ right-of-way on your property then he did not see how moving water 25’ versus 62’ defies common sense.~ What you are trying to do is get water to that ditch so you can run it to the other culvert.~ He asked why is 25’ logical and 62’ not common sense?

Chris Neagle said if you want the drainage side of the culvert to be longer that does not defy common sense.~ The intake side does.~ If you want the drainage side to run to the edge of the right-of-way onto the Districts land before it continues down the Districts property that does make sense.~ If you would rather have the water in a culvert than in an open ditch he could understand the point.~ If on the west side of this road you want the culvert to go to the end of the 99’ so it’s not an open ditch that can be accomplished.~ But putting it 99’ on the east side so it’s no longer where the ditch is what he can’t understand.~

Councilor Nesbitt said what you are saying is there is no way to modify the drainage and collection of water on the east side to get it into the culvert.~

Chris Neagle said if you are suggesting that you want the District to rebuild the road drainage so that it is on the Districts property and not the Towns right-of-way that is possible.~ Anything is possible.

Chair Simpson said that is what the order says that it can be negotiated between the Town Manager, Public Works Director and Water District.

Chris Neagle said that without the second order we’re nowhere.

Councilor Pomerleau said that he was amazed that Portland Water District sent him out here and you assume that we don’t want the Ecology Park.~ You assume that you can threaten us with lawsuits and costly lawsuits.~ You assume how we are going to vote on an order before we even got there and discussed it.~ He said that he could go on for a half hour on how he feels about the presentation but he won’t.~ He said that really bothered him that Portland Water District assumes that we won’t work with them when this Park has been a great interest to the whole Council.~ Because we don’t agree where they want to park cars doesn’t mean don’t approve of the plan to do something nice with that area.~ He said he hoped that he never assumes how he much common sense that he has.

Chris Neagle said that he wasn’t assuming anything.

Councilor Pomerleau said what were you assuming when you said that it will cost you a lot of money and we’ll take it to the Commissioners if you don’t approve this. What were you assuming? He said he didn’t know where you got the idea that we don’t approve of Ecology Park other than the parking.

Chris Neagle said that your Town Manager called up the General Manager of the Water District and told him in plain simple English that Town Council was going to do everything in its power to stop the Ecology and Education Center.~ He said that he didn’t make an assumption.~ He said that he reacted to information given to his client from your Town Manager, okay.~ He said that we were told that the Council will do everything in their power to stop this.

Councilor Lymburner said that this has gone too far.

Councilor Hopkins said that can we address the order that’s before us.

VOTE:~ 5 Yeas – 1 Nay, Christy

39-04 Authorize an Easement for an 18” Roadway Culvert 120 Feet Southwest of the MDOT Mountain Division Trail Right-of-Way within the Bounds of the Northeast Road Rangeway as Shown on the Portland Water District Proposed Plans [Simpson]

Councilor Lymburner asked a question the wording and with your advice the title says Authorize an Easement …yet the order says that the easement is denied.~ Should the title read deny an easement?~

Moved by Lymburner Seconded by Hopkins to amend the title of the order as follows:

39-04 ~~Authorize an~~~ Deny Request for Easement for an 18” Roadway Culvert 120 Feet Southwest of the MDOT Mountain Division Trail Right-of-Way within the Bounds of the Northeast Road Rangeway as Shown on the Portland Water District Proposed Plans (6 Yeas – 0 nays)

Councilor Nesbitt said that this could be done two ways.~ He said that something should be in here that indicates that something could be brought forward later. This says it closed.~ Maybe it would be worthwhile to let if come forward at a later time.

Chair Simpson said that can always happen.

Councilor Hopkins said that she wanted to be clear; she said that she wanted to make sure that for the public prospective why she is supporting this is that the legal opinions indicate that the Town may own a public easement in the parking areas.~ She said that we feel, those of us that will support the order, that proposed culvert could interfere with the public’s use of those premises.~ She wanted to explain the rational of the vote there is no other rational involved.~ She said that there has been no discussion of shutting down their request of the park, what they have on the plate before the Code Enforcement Officer.~~ She said that we had a public meeting last week and that didn’t even come into the discussion when the Committee agreed to support the order.~ The discussion tonight has been in response to the Districts legal representation.~~ She said that she wanted to make sure the Councils thought process was represented.

Chair Simpson said to Mr. Neagle that he was sorry but he had closed the public discussion period.

Chris Neagle said that requested to speak on this.

Chair Simpson said that he would allow him to speak.

Chris Neagle asked how does a culvert buried six feet under ground interfere with parking rights? ~

Chair Simpson said that question has been answered.

Chris Neagle said that you haven’t answered the question.

Chair Simpson said we have answered it at least six times.

Chris Neagle asked that a culver six feet under the ground re-covered how does that affect the parking on top of it?

Chair Simpson said that we have told you and told you.

Chris Neagle said that he didn’t hear it.

Chair Simpson said that it will connect the two retention ponds and we feel that it the pond will be put on land that we have rights to.

Chris Neagle said fine as long as you understand that the retention ponds affect the parking, not the culvert.

Councilor Christy said that his vote on the last order is for stewardship and he feels strongly about it.~ He said that stewardship is the only way that we can safeguard Sebago Lake.

VOTE ON ORDER AS AMENDED: 6 Yeas – 0 Nays

NEW BUSINESS~~

44-04 Authorize Consent Agreement – Winterberg – Map 15 Lot 2 Sub 8A [Simpson]

Chair Simpson said that he will have Dan Hill speak to this but first he wanted to ask Gordy when we spend money in legal fees and collect it back does that go back into the legal fund.

Gordon Billington said that it goes into the general fund.

Dan Hill explained that lot was created prior to zoning, it was a subdivision created in July of 1974.~~ He said that he had originally gave the application for 50/50/50 setbacks.~ It was brought to his attention that it was created before zoning and it was a legal non-conforming lot. ~Meaning it could have a setback of 20/10/10. What they are asking for is the Council to agree with his interpretation of the Town Code.

VOTE: 6 Yeas – 0 Nays

45-04 Authorize Enforcement Action – Violation of Standish Land Use Ordinance – Sprague – Map 1 Lot 11-3 [Simpson]

Dan Hill explained that Mr. Sprague came in prior to the issuing of the building permit and asked if he could have relief from the three lot standard requiring a roadway to go in there.~ A meeting was held with Gordy, Roger, Mr. Sprague and himself.~ There were some conditions that were agree to, one being that he could bring it up to two lot standards but the driveways on the first lot will have to come off River Road. Dan explained that Mr. Sprague signed the agreement, completed his house and moved into it and has not brought the road up or put the driveway in.~

Chair Simpson asked if he has an occupancy permit?

Dan Hall said that does not.~ He went on to say that was part of the agreement that he would not get that occupancy permit until he met the requirements.

Chair Simpson said and it’s now occupied?

Dan Hill said that it was.

Davis Sprague said what Dan said was true.~ He said that had attempted to put a driveway in off the River Road and the road was brought up to standards.~ He said that they looked at it and was told that the driveway off River Road to access the first lot was unacceptable. He said that he didn’t understand that if there are no stipulations for driveways.~ He said to make a long story short up until about three weeks ago we couldn’t come up with a fix for this problem. He said that Roger met with Tommy Nason who is in charge of roads for the Department of Transportation in Standish to try to come up with a solution for this. They did come up with a solution so it’s just a matter of getting it done, it should be completed in a matter of three weeks to a month.~~ He said he asking them to hold off until then and it will up to standards.

Chair Simpson said that one of the things that he has found out is that the current Code Enforcement Officer doesn’t bring actions forward he usually tries to work with the person.~ He went on to say that the paperwork shows that the Code Enforcement Officer has done everything that he could possibly do there.~ He said that quite frankly other than what you have said right now you have ignored him. He said even to the point that you have occupied a house that you don’t have an occupancy permit for. He said that we wouldn’t be here if he felt you were going to be accommodating.

Councilor Lymburner asked Dan Hill what is his response to what the gentleman said to us that the first driveway was unacceptable and that he has been working with you folks.

Dan Hill said that he hasn’t been approached about a new driveway.~ He said that he took pictures this winter of the driveway and there is no driveway.~

Roger Mosley said that Mr. Sprague referenced a Tom Nason who is the supervisor of the DOT camp on Saco Road and a friend of first occupant’s lot whose driveway should be on River Road.~ He said that Tom called him and asked what needed to be done.~ He said that they talked about the engineer’s review of the road.~ He said that the applicant had put in a little stub off River Road and called it a driveway. Dan took a picture of that and the applicant was told that it was unacceptable.~ The agreement was that they would have a separate entrance to that house from River Road not off Victory Lane.~ Mr. Nason commented that it was tight location.~ Roger said that he told him that they would need to set up a time when they could go look and look at potential locations and site distances.~ At this time, nothing has been set up to meet with Tom.~ He said that in conversations with Dan it was within days of what was the termination of this latest letter that has the timeline on it.~ He said that Mr. Nason, Mr. Sprague or Mr. Bilodeau has not contacted him as far as a location for placement of the driveway.

Councilor Lymburner asked how long ago was that?

Roger Mosley said just days before the timeline in the letter.

Councilor Pomerleau asked where was the proposed driveway going to be located, is it going to be on Victory Lane or do you own land out to River Road?

Mr. Sprague he said that there is a 12’ buffer along there.

Councilor Christy asked Mr. Sprague for grasp of something.~ 2001 was the first agreement it’s three year later and there is another violation.~ He asked in your mind….

Mr. Sprague said that he built the house from the ground up.

Councilor Christy said what has happen in the three-year period, where you gave your word that this would be taken care of.

Mr. Sprague said that the property has a lot history.~ The third lot in was the lot that he bought.~ The road was approved before his lot was even thought about being built.~ It was approved for a two-lot division.~ The first house was originally addressed off of River Road so it had no ties with Victory Lane.~ He said that the Town made them change the address to 2 Victory Lane, which then put two houses on the private road.~ He said that even with that the road was okay with two houses up there. ~He said that all the way at the end there is a hammerhead turnaround. He said that the road was approved right to that and that’s where his driveway comes off from.~ He said what he did was move in on an existing private road that had already been approved by the Town.~ He said that occupancy permits had been issued for the first two houses and when I came to apply they said that they have to change the address of the first house so that there is only one house on Victory Lane. ~

Councilor Christy asked why have you let three years go by?