STANDISH PLANNING BOARD MEETING MINUTES
Standish Planning Board
Meeting Minutes
October 02, 2023
The meeting of the Standish Planning Board was called to order by Chairman Charles Brown at 6:00pm. Present were Frank Nappi, Deb Boxer, Derek Wright, Andrew Walton, Patrick Gere, Carolyn Biegel and Town Planner Scott Hastings. Absent was Jackie Dyer, Admin. to the Town Planner and the Planning Board.
Open Meeting
a. Call to order -Chairman Brown
b. Opening Statement from Planning Board Chairman Brown
c. Declaration of a Quorum- 7
Approval of Meeting Minutes from September 11, 2023
Mrs. Biegel said there are a couple of corrections. On the first page of the first paragraph at the bottom she said that it should say “fundamental to the project, not detrimental”. On page 5, the bottom line she said that “she does remember, not doesn’t remember” as she remembers exactly how it went and would like that struck from the minutes. She said that on the public comment, Ryan Carson said the building is ugly and she would like that included as that is the only thing not in there.
Mrs. Boxer made a motion to accept the minutes with the proposed amendments and this was seconded by Mr. Nappi All in favor.
Old Business:
- Nicholas Thorne, 11 Angelwood Road Ext, Map 2, Lot 2-48-1C-Site Plan Application to build a duplex.
Mr. Thorne is not present, and a motion was made by Mr. Wright to table this, seconded by Mr. Nappi. Six in favor with Mr. Gere recusing himself as his employer has done work with this project.
New Business:
- Kenneth & Anthony Grondin, Northeast Road, Map 14, Lot 84-Subdivision Application to build a 69 lot, single family home, subdivision (Woodbrey Heights)
Dustin Roma from DM Roma Consulting Engineers was present to represent the applicants. He said they had a workshop several months ago with the Planning Board and several others were present as well. He said there was discussion about the layout and the conservation subdivision objectives and that has given them time enough to go back and retool the plan from what was originally proposed. Dustin said they have put together a revised layout that moves the intersection point of the roadway much further down into the project than what was originally proposed and that was a significant change. He said they have also gone into some very extensive details and a lot of the information is in each packet the members have, and he won’t cover all the details, but will run through some of them as to what they have done. Dustin said they have made their application to DEP for their site location permits and those are currently pending and under review. He said they currently have had substantial back and forth with Portland Water District for the water infrastructure and they have approved the design submitted. He said there are around 6900 feet of roadway and there are currently 69 lots, and these roads would be built and would be offered up for public acceptance. Dustin said they are paved and 22 feet wide and there are 5-foot sidewalks on most of them. He said they have been working on natural areas and programs with Maine Department of Inland Fisheries & Wildlife. He said they have requested for them to have a couple of different studies on some different plant species as well as a couple of turtle species that could potentially be on the site. He said they have had to hire other consultants to come out and try to determine any other species there may be and are they present. He said they do not want to have any potential effect on any species.
Dustin said they have carefully designed the open space around where the potential species could be and there are wetlands that run along with slopes on the rear part of the parcel on the southeast side. He said they have about 40 acres of designated open space in the back area, and they have tried to include as many wetlands and steep slopes in that back area as they can into the open space. He said the plan shows what is open space in the dark green area and showed the individual lots. Dustin said each lot will have their own subsurface wastewater disposal systems. He said they have dug pits on each lot to make sure the soils are suitable, and they have also had tests for nitrates on each lot. Dustin said they have performed a traffic impact analysis by John Adams. He said they looked at the traffic on Northeast Road and expanded their study to look into high crash locations in the area. He said the intersection of Rt.114 & 35 does have enough instances to deem it a high crash area through DOT standards. He said they are low speed crashes like being rear ended and congestion area crashes, but nothing alarming.
Dustin said they understand the Town has had a third-party review engineer go over the plan and they have received a copy of that memo from them. He said their concern was around the wetland areas and to be able to get around to them and the areas around the pond that would require maintenance. He said they also were concerned about the slopes, and they will work with them closely to resolve those concerns. Dustin said the steep slope comments said there was concern about the lots on the back part of the property adjacent to cul- de- sac with 20% slopes. He said they need to look at them and decide if they are buildable lots and they can provide the Board with more rating of the slopes. He said they tend not to be concerned about 20% slopes and often do homes with daylight basements in those areas. He said there is an area of white between the roadway and steep slopes, those white areas are flatter, and they are able to provide more buildable lots there. He said in the steep slope areas closer to the road they are graded away from the road and are desirable lots with great topography and a great place for daylight basements. He said some of the lots you might be able to get a half daylight basement because of the slope. He said they are happy to provide any information on the buildability of lots.
Dustin said they have put in the preliminary plan that they have the full review to go through with DEP and he would like to get some feedback from the Board. He said one of the items raised in the memo was the laying out of the sidewalks along the road and they are looking at block length and sidewalk connectivity. They are proposing going in around 1400 feet or so and doing a connecting roadway. He said this is about half of the way in. Dustin said they did this to provide a pedestrian connection between roadways, and they thought about another street connection but there is too much of a grade. He said the sidewalk connection would help them in not having to build another full road between the two proposed roadways. He said they are still meeting the intent of the ordinance by building out these two roads that are parallel and intersecting with each other. He said that if you take into account the existing property lines and wetlands, it’s difficult to lay these roads out. He said they try to fit everything in the best they can with the existing topography and meet the objective the best they can. He said there are sidewalks on Woodbrey Lane and Eastern Lane except for the section of Eastern Lane that comes to Northeast Road. He said they were not proposing sidewalks in the Northeast Road area because of steep slopes on the backside. He said they have designed the roadway with positive slope areas for drainage and good building envelopes for each lot. They do not have a lot of extra room for sidewalks in that area and Dustin said this would leave more green space.
Dustin said as far as the functionality of the sidewalks goes, there would be none on Northeast Road. He said the most likely walking scenario would be to make loops through the neighborhood around a mile long and there would be connectivity out to Rt. 35, which they have proposed, just on Woodbrey Lane and not the eastern lane side. He said the open space, which is about 40 acres in the back, will have a trail that runs through it and there is an existing snowmobile trail that will be relocated behind the lots that will tie back in to where it originally on both sides where it enters the property. Dustin said that was a summary of the project. Mr., Hastings said he feels the Board cannot take a vote on anything tonight, but they do need to comment, especially on the block connection, the open space lay out, whether it meets the standards for the conservation subdivision and do they want to have a site walk that should be set up as soon as possible.
Mr. Roma said there is access after the first three or four hundred feet of field and the lot has been logged. Mr. Hastings said on the plan, there is a lot that is labeled as a cemetery. He said that is an error on the Town’s data set and is not a cemetery, but its undeveloped land and belongs to Richard H. Walker, an abutter. Mr. Gere said he is a direct abutter to this project and wonders if he needs to recuse himself and Mr. Hastings said that he should. Mr. Brown told him he could still participate as a part of the audience. Mr. Brown asked about the purpose of the walkway and Mr. Hastings said the ordinance requires a link between and the applicant has spoken to him before this. He said if this was more of a buildable area, they would see the need for more future connections or build outs. Mr. Hastings said it seems to be a good compromise. He said there is so much land that could be built on and it gets to the point of making a road connection off the property hard and maybe impossible. Mr. Hastings said it seemed reasonable to propose this to the Board as a possible road connection. He said it is up to the Board to decide what they want to ask of them.
Mr. Walton said if a loop is being done, he would like to see the sidewalk on the inside, so you don’t have to cross Eastern Lane. He asked if this was possible, and Mr. Roma asked if this was to avoid the crosswalk. Mr. Walton said if it was done this way and you were walking your dog, you would not have to cross. Mr. Roma said the design of the roadway has some curbing on both sides and some of them have curbing on one side with open ditch on the other side. He said the way Eastern Lane was laid out, is with curbing and sidewalk on one side and open ditch on the other. He said they had to go through many iterations with the Portland Water District as the road has many curves and for the separations of the utilities and water mains. He said there are a number of reasons they have tried to balance out both the sidewalks and the curbs. Mr. Roma said they would be painting the crosswalks out. Mr. Walton said it is hard looking at it on a flat plan.
Mrs. Biegel said she is looking at this from a bus drivers’ perspective. She said she loves the name of the subdivision and is glad they kept the Woodbrey name in there. She said historically she thinks it’s very appropriate. She said she has come over the crest of the hill many times and she had seen Mr. Woodbrey plowing his driveway and you don’t have a whole lot of site distance. She said when she looks at Cheri’s Way and then the two entrances, she wonders where the bus stop would be. She said she looked at the site distance and maybe five feet to spare, she said she doesn’t feel that is accurate and would love to have it double checked. She said if you really needed to stop, there is not a lot of room before you get to Woodbrey Lane. Mrs. Biegel said if there is going to be any kind of bus stop, it should be on the other end with time to be able to stop before you crest the hill and see the red lights. She said it’s hard with Cheri’s Way right across the street as that is a different bus stop and they don’t line up. She said that Cheri’s Way is right on the main drag, and everyone walks to it.
Mr. Roma told Mrs. Biegel because of the reasons she just brought up, he would assume that they would want to get off the main road. He said there will probably be a fair number of kids getting on and off and he could see them wanting to pick them up at an intersection on the inside of the looped road and get off the main road. Mrs. Boxer said maybe they would want to talk to them, and Mrs. Biegel said she thought that part of this was in the school budget as to how many stops they need to make. She said when she was on the Board, they stopped going through developments for many reasons. She said she is very concerned about that site distance coming over the hill and she would really like to see this project work and maybe the traffic could come in on Eastern Lane vs. Woodbrey Lane entrance. She said she grew up in a neighborhood where there were lots of streets and the Town set up a range way and they had a grid. Recently she said they have had a couple of large landowners pass away and that is what has happened with Mr. Woodbrey. She said she knows that looking at the plan, that would not be a good connection and she realizes they would lose some lots. She said she knows parents like to drive their kids to the bus stops and a place is needed for that.
Dustin said there are many possibilities going forward along with a road extension. He said they looked at some opportunities and when you get closer and closer to where something makes sense, you are too close. Dustin said that things need to make sense and two roads being only 300 feet apart did not. He said where they are showing the sidewalk connection would be where it would need to go, and they are trying to balance everything out. He said having the two roads close together does not meet what they are trying to achieve. He said with them closer together you would have a small area that has homes but roads running everywhere. Mrs. Biegel said she feels that is an area that they could start creating other lots that will eventually get developed and it’s a matter of time. Dustin said with the sight distance, they knew that if they didn’t have excessive distance, they had gone out there with Roger Mosley, Public Works Director at the time, they went out and looked at the two entrances and took independent measurements. He said they did this before they hired the traffic engineers to make sure that Roger was okay with the proposal of the two entrances. Mrs. Biegel said there are a lot of trips going in and out of there per day. Mr. Brown asked if this is in the compact zone under the Town jurisdiction and Mr. Roma told him it was.
Mr. Hastings said the Public Works Director, John Cross, has not responded in writing to this application yet, but he will be. He said they have talked about this, and they are very aware and have the plans. Mr. Wright said it would be good for someone else to weigh in. Mr. Hastings said that the applicant works closely with them. Mr. Brown said that the generic plans like they had for Coldbrook Estates and Wildlands, that show the potential grading and slopes, are always good to have on hand. Mrs. Biegel asked if the slopes of the driveways are included and Mr. Roma said they will include the driveways, places on the street, so you can see the slopes. He said you will be able to see that the driveways are not too deep into the lots and there is space available for septic systems. Mrs. Biegel said she walks Wildridge Subdivision all the time and there is quite a slope going down. Mr. Brown said this will give them a good indication of the grading plans and what Ransom is concerned about. Mr. Roma said it’s really the lots on the end of Woodbrey Lane as you approach the cul-de-sac. He said those are the ones that have the 20% slopes.
Mr. Brown said they received a letter from the Fire Department, and they do not have any issues. Mr. Brown said his concern was the crosswalk and being able to have access if needed. Mr. Hastings said the big loop off from Northeast Road gives them plenty of access without having to worry about things getting blocked or having a dead end like a lot of subdivisions. Mr. Hastings said he is happy with the access plan to this, then the initial plan. Mr. Roma said he believes there are five new hydrants to be installed. Mrs. Biegel said she was looking at the ditches on the sides and it looks like there is a lot of stone and Mr. Roma said there is. She said when she sees those when they are first installed, they look beautiful and are great. She said after a season, they are hard to maintain because of the rocks and if the Town was going to take over the roads, she is wondering if some turf could be used so you could maintain it and weed wack it and not have all those nasty leaves going up into the rocks. Mr. Roma said from a functionality point, the reason for the rip rap is that it takes the velocity out of any water and sediment will occur and fill in the gaps between the rocks. He said the rocks are also sitting on soil and then spreading seeds and mulch will cause grass to grow over time. Dustin said that there is some extra stability with grass growth as soil will make its way to the bottom. Dustin said any grass that grows in there will help with erosion. He said that anywhere they are proposing riprap is because of handling the velocity of the water where it could become erosive on the soils. Mrs. Biegel said she knows in other areas; they can put in other things. Mr. Roma said they often put in some hay-like material with netting over it. Mrs. Biegel said she doesn’t know what you call it. Mr. Roma said its grass like material. Mrs. Biegel said it’s easier for the homeowner to maintain the ditch near their property versus the rocks. Mr. Roma said that a lot of the time it’s the time of the year too. He said they are doing a project right now where they loamed and seeded the ditches a week ago and grass is growing, there hasn’t been much rain, and the weather has been warm. He said a lot of the times you try and get the grass to grow and then we get a lot of rain. He said the riprap is immediate stabilization as soon as it’s put down and best for the long term. He said they can look at other options, but they need a plan the DEP is okay with for long term maintenance. Mr. Brown said it looks like the slopes with riprap are pushing 8% and Mr. Roma said they are.
Mrs. Boxer said she is concerned with the peer review notes and what ponds are draining into the wetlands on all three ponds. She said she would like to see how that is going to work out. She said she is also concerned about the low impact technologies and how they will be worked in. She asked if they have more information from Inland Fisheries and the DEP concerning significant wildlife habitat and did they do a survey of vernal pools or not? Mr. Roma said they had done that already. He thought the information was in the packet. Mrs. Boxer said they just passed a new law that they added a bunch of new species in what would be included in the significant vernal pools more than just ducks and turtles anymore. She said there is a whole list, and she would like to see something from Inland Fisheries on that. Mrs. Boxer said that in the email on June 14, 2023, it talks about the sites unsuitability and should the site have a study on turtles if deemed necessary. She said four days later another email was sent that said no other additional studies were needed regarding turtles, but she said the plant was not on there. She said there is nothing from DIFWL that said no additional work was necessary. Mr. Roma said they notified DIFWL that they were undertaking a project on this land, and he said that is about all they need to know. He said they don’t care what you are doing for a project, but they care about the land itself.
Mr. Roma said the first letter from DIFWL, they identified the box turtle and the wood turtle. He said that is when they hired FB Environmental, and they work directly with DIFWL, and they propose the scope of work and when its going to be done. DIFWL reports back to them after the results of the study, and they then determine if they wanted them to go out and trap those species. He said DIFWL felt that the species was not present in that habitat and trapping the species was not necessary. He said they have provided the chronology in the documents. Mrs. Boxer asked if they could provide the final letter from DIFWL saying nothing else needs to be done. Mr. Wright said on page 2 of the packet, it says what studies they have done. Mrs. Boxer said she would like to see all the environmental studies and what was done. Mr. Roma said they can provide those and as far as the botanical study, they consulted with Maine Natural Studies, and they did a study of that area that said that it could potentially support the plant she was asking about and the three studies they did is in the packet.
Mr. Brown asked if the Board had any other questions. He opened the hearing up for public comment.
Eric Twedell- land owner downhill from the proposed project. He said he had some comments and concerns and wanted to show some pictures to the Board to help illustrate his concerns. He said the first photo is a view from his driveway and showing where the lower access road would be. He said that vehicles cresting the hill can crest at approximately 50mph. He said they can encroach on you very quickly and this proposed Eastern Lane is right beside his driveway, there is no shoulder, and you cannot see emergency vehicles coming or pull over for them. He said he sees a potential problem. He said there is an eroded ditch that will end up downhill and they recently filled it with sand. On the second picture in front of Bob Lancaster’s property, he said you can barely see any shoulder. On picture three he said that this is a different issue from the back of his property to the front and the property line. He said the marker can be seen in the middle of the front of the big tree, you can see a drainage ditch as well. On picture four he said that this is a view to the back of his property from the big tree showing the drainage. He said he is asking for the line of trees along his property line be left to protect his buffer and his drainage: he said the property line intersects with the ditch and all the water coming from the field goes behind his property right now, he said he has some major concerns with drainage if the trees are taken away. He asked for the positioning of Eastern Lane to be reconsidered and perhaps removing the house being built on Lot 1 and move it slightly up the hill as the traffic will be cresting on the hill. He said the study on the intersection of Rt.114 doesn’t really provide anything at all.
Bob Lancaster-resident for 41 years and he is at the top of the hill. He said he has a number of concerns and once the project is finished at approximately 2 kids per house for a total of 138, they will be going to MSAD #6. He said that his concern is safety on that hill which is questionable. He said he saw Herbert Woodbrey total out two cars in one summer getting rear ended turning into his driveway and neither accident was his fault. Bob said that the ditches are gullies, and he doesn’t know how many times the Town has filled them in over the Summer. He said that in front of his house is a sign that says no engine brakes. He said if you look going over the hill a logging truck locked up all four wheels for probably 80 feet or more. Bob said he doesn’t know if they were avoiding a deer or trying to avoid someone coming out of their driveway. He said that during the Summer, you need to take an extra half hour to go to Windham because of the back up to get through the intersection. He said he has seen several rear end accidents going over the knoll. Bob said emergency vehicles responding come over the hill at an awful clip. His concern is coming in or out Eastern Lane as he feels there will be an awful accident. He said around 4:30 in the morning trucks were hitting their jake brakes and at other times he has seen a school bus being passed. He said he is concerned about water drainage and said there will be a lot of blasting. He said he talked to many going over the project and they could be blasting up to 3 feet deep. Bob said his house is a much older one and his barn as well are back in the early 1900’s. He said he is up on a hill and there is natural drainage, and he is hoping there won’t be any more. He said there are stone walls, and he believes there is a law that says you cannot remove them unless you own all the property and there are many on surrounding properties. He asked Mr. Hastings if an abutter next to the road could request a barrier for the lights coming in from vehicles. Mr. Hastings said we are supposed to do all we can against light pollution and lights coming onto neighboring properties. Mr. Lancaster said he feels that is something that needs to be reviewed. Bob said that someone talked about wildlife habitat, and he said there is an abundant amount there. He said in the Spring they had a bear, and he walked the property all the way to the back, sometimes on snowshoes, and he has seen fisher, deer, moose, bobcats, and bear. He said he has deer every night and wildlife needs to be a concern. He said on the downhill side is his septic and is there a rule that says how far the abutting road would need to be from his system and Mr. Hastings said he did not know right now. He said it’s usually from the sidelines of his property line. Mrs. Boxer said she thought the setback was 10 feet from the property line. Bob said he does not look forward to all the dump trucks and heavy equipment coming in on Woodbrey Lane bringing their loads of gravel and everything. He said that Mr. Roma came one day with all the abutters and answered many questions. He said the engineers for the road came and said they had some concerns. He said they told him the best place for a road for this project was his driveway. He said his biggest concern was the cresting of the hill with cars coming and in the winter with people trying to turn and come up the hill. He said that there have been times when a Poland Spring truck would have to be pulled out of the ditch because he could not make the hill.
Maurie Hill- Wildridge Road and she is an abutter. She said she knows this is life. She said it seems kind of impolite to put two house lots against Mr. Lancaster’s land and feels its intrusive to the people that are already there. She said she feels those lots could be used for a bus turn or other and thinks it’s very rude and unneighborly to put houses there. She said she doesn’t know if anyone really cares but that is her assessment. She said she lives next to Mr. Gere, and they are both impacted by this and how will they be protected when all of this is being built and beyond. She said she and everyone else likes their privacy, how long is the project going to take and how it will disrupt all the neighbors. She said she is concerned about the blasting too and is responsible for her own house. She said that her final concern is about these hundred-year storms we are having every five years and how will they do with the drainage and the stormwater. She asked about the walkway between the two roads and what it is exactly. Mr. Hastings said the second line is just the labeling arrow. He said it does parallel the lot very nicely and go along the back.
Lisa Sangillo-Richville Road. She said she is not against the project at all and we need housing. She said her main concern is the intersection down by the lake and she finds that if we are going to be dumping out 130 plus cars, it will be horrendous and beyond. She said she knows the Town recently approved improvements to that intersection, and she hopes it can be completed before this subdivision is completely built out.
Steve Miller-Wildridge. He said that he thinks development needs to happen but there are a lot of large lots that will be in the same situation. He said he feels this is a change in the character of Standish. He said most of us live in neighborhoods where we have 1 or 2 acres and are we setting a precedent for people that want to build houses or is this an opportunity for the Town to maybe say we can have development, but have it scaled back to maybe 40 houses. He said he would not want to live in a neighborhood with .25 acres and is this the kind of neighborhood we want for Standish. He said these are very small lots and there are issues with the road and access. He said for future projects once we set a precedent it’s hard to go back on it. He said one of the reasons he lives here and loves it is that the lots are bigger.
Susie Bradford-lives in parents’ old home and bought it a while ago. She said all of the reasons for coming back home is that we have open space and privacy. She said they would like to request to have some sort of buffer between their tranquil location and all of this. She said she spoke to the snowmobile club and told them their trail will no longer come out onto their property and would need to be relocated. She said she doesn’t want to be unhospitable, but they like their privacy. They don’t want dirt bikes riding in the fields they have come to love so much.
Tim Crowley-NE Road. Has there ever been a traffic study or traffic counter as to how many cars travel up and down Northeast Road. He said that 690 trips in and out of that subdivision would be a mess. He said that sometimes you see a sheriff pull someone over for passing school buses and speeding. He said that if he pulls out of his driveway and someone is cresting the hill and hits him, it’s their fault not his. He said that people are not doing 45mph and people on motorcycles are doing 150mph and no one is doing anything about it. He said there are no kids where he is, so he doesn’t worry about a school bus having to stop. He is up at 4:30am and there is traffic 24 hours a day. He said he lives 1.5 miles from the intersection of Rt.114 and it’s backed up every day. He said he wonders just how many trips are done a day through there. Mr. Brown said there was a traffic study done and the DOT has those figures and Mr. Hastings said he does not have them tonight. Mr. Crowley said the additional traffic is a big concern and the hill entrance.
Patrick Gere-Wildridge Road. He said he has concerns related to the entrances and the conservation subdivision. He said people have mentioned having some kind of buffers between lots and he believes they are allowed to clear within ten feet of the property line. Patrick said that it would be nice to see some deed restrictions to allow more space. He said there is no minimum width for a conservation subdivision, and it allows for some funny shaped pie slice lots. He would like to see some restrictions on lighting. He said they love the dark skies at night.
Sandra Thurston-Oak Hill Road. She said the people talk about limiting the number of houses and we can thank the Federal government for this as they passed the law for affordable houses to build across all the states and across the country. Mrs. Boxer said she didn’t think these would be affordable houses.
Maurie Hill-Wildridge. She said the schools and funding them are always a struggle. She said people move here and expect good schools from Portland, Westbrook, Gorham. She said some towns charge a development fee or something else to offset the extra cost. She asked if Standish had anything like that and Mr. Brown said he had heard of it. Mr. Hastings said the only impact fee we have is the road impact. She said there is a lovely virgin lot next door, and she knows this will not be affordable housing and those paying 600 thousand for a house will expect good schools.
Anthony Folsom-Dolloff Road. He said that he has the same concerns as Maurie, in that will the Town have what is needed to support these developments. He said there is a sidewalk to nowhere in this subdivision and why do we have them, who will maintain them ? Tony said these big developers come to Standish and make a lot of money and truly do not care about the Town of Standish and he said he feels it’s not right.
Izzy Higgins-Bonny Eagle Road. She said she is nowhere near this but on her end of Rt. 35 no one goes the speed limit either. She said she wants to know how big the lots are. Mr. Brown said they start at 20,000 square feet, about a half-acre. She said the whole idea of a conversation development some space is going to be conserved and not built on. She said because of the issues that have come up, is there the possibility of having more space at the front of the development that would be for buses to come in and turn around. She said she knows they are trying to have as many lots as possible, but maybe more green space would be an improvement. She said that she feels that for the people that bought the Woodbrey house, having a road built on either side of them, this is a kick in the teeth.
Anthony Folsom-asked if the lots being a quarter of an acre, what will they pay taxes on. Mr. Wright said he would have to talk to the Assessor. Tony said that common land is included in their taxes he believes.
Ken Grondin-Developer of the project. Said he is looking forward to meeting everyone at the site walk. He said they did a development in Windham recently, and they were 20,000 square foot lots and it’s a nice neighborhood with kids playing out in the streets. He said he would like to show this to people, it’s on Hayfield Lane off Albion Road. He said good questions are being asked about habitat and open space. He said you take the area of habitat and try to add square footage, so it’s ecologically protected. He said that the different critters would not go to the lots at the top but will stay in the back like they do now. He said as far as the stone walls, he is big into esthetics, and they mapped out the stone walls and lined them out. Ken said he is trying to save everything he can as he realizes that people broke their backs to build those stone walls, and he feels they will really look good. He wants to be a good neighbor and listen to everyone’s concerns. He said he will go the distance to do what is wanted. Someone in the public asked about building back and only doing 25 houses.
Maurie Hill said her biggest concern is the two lots up front and they are so unneighborly and would like to see those two eliminated. Tim Crowley said he has no doubt it will be lovely, but to drive into their utopia, they must go through his Armageddon. He said that he couldn’t get in his driveway and now he wouldn’t be able to get out. Eric Twedell said this is too much density in that area and what they have for roads. He said this is a lot of kids going onto the highway and trying to figure out where they can put the buses. He said he is also concerned about light pollution and lack of privacy if they cut the trees down on his property line. Also, the crazy amount of traffic on Rt. 35. Tony Folsom said that at the top property why would you put an access to someone’s property even if you don’t own it. He said that needed to be removed from the plan unless the owner has decided to sell it. Tony said he doesn’t live on a quarter acre and feels Mr. Grondin would not move in one of these spaces and say what a great place it is. Mr. Brown said they have to provide access to the storm water ponds. Mr. Lancaster asked about a speed gun as the Town cannot dictate speed limits and Mr. Brown said the State sets the speed limit. Mr. Lancaster said he would like to do something during the weekend so they could get an idea when traffic is at its peak. He said that Aubrey Woodbrey tried for years to get the speed limit dropped and it never was. He said he understands the emergency response vehicles and he sees many people coming over the crest of the hill talking on their cell phones and that adds to the potential danger we have.
Mrs. Saucier- 20 Cider Mill Lane. She said she is pretty new to Standish, but she has seen the changes across the State of Maine. She said when you have these little lots pop up, it just clear cuts the land. She said we lose a lot of the trees and the land and with these little lots it doesn’t keep the esthetics of the area. She said a couple of people have mentioned the larger pieces of land to maintain quiet, maintain privacy as well as it is a dangerous road and its hard with so much traffic going up and down Rt.35. She said she agrees with and understands all the concerns.
A motion was made by Mr. Wright and seconded by Mr. Walton to close the public hearing. All in favor.
Dustin Roma said all of the comments that have come up about speed and people not observing the speed, he said that to whatever extent they can help the Town to reduce the speed, if this project will need to facilitate a speed study or anything they can do that will help, they will do. He said density was talked about and the Town has two growth areas that are being promoted. He said that one thing with this project is that it’s important to note on this property, it’s not that they put a number of lots on the property and are trying to maximize it, the calculations they provided and what the Town allows for density, there could potentially be 104 lots on this property. He said they went through some extensive exercises to try and figure out where the most suitable land was and the best conservation area. He said they just didn’t arrive at 69 lots; they didn’t set out to do the maximum. He said they figured out what was best for the land and what it would support with all the different factors they are dealing with. He said they feel that it’s important for people to know that they are not just going in and putting the maximum number of lots in that they could, and that the Town would allow them to do. He said as far as the drainage that currently happens along Northeast Road and the washouts occurring for the lack of shoulders, the two roadways they are building into the project do not have culverts that would continue to send water down the hill, but both of the roadways have ditch lines that bring the water into the subdivision and these roads are in essence acting like dams and any water would go back towards the brook. He said that should provide and help to alleviate the drainage happening now and pull it back into the subdivision.
Dustin said that the conservation subdivision they are proposing is optional in this zone. He said that this is not dictated that it has to be done this way and they have looked at what a project might be like if they utilize all of the land for lots. He said there would be a lot more road the Town would end up needing to maintain, the land that is on the other side of the brook is a large area of flat and level land. He said that actually is the best part of the property and one of the best places to situate houses. He said they made the choice to preserve that area and not go into it with houses. He said there is a brook corridor there and they thought the area with the 40 acres of contiguous area of open space, would be a serious benefit for the wildlife as well as recreation for folks in the area. He said they could have expanded the lot size to an acre and expanding the roads. Dustin said they did this on purpose to preserve the space and they are providing more road frontage than what is required by the Town. He said they could reduce those down, but they have tried to keep a minimum of 100 feet and sometimes more. Dustin said that will provide leaving some of the existing trees between some of the houses, so they are not going in and just clearcutting the area. He said those existing trees will leave buffering rather than having to go in and plant them.
Dustin said there are a lot of broad questions in general. He said they are definitely on the team with seeing if they can get the speed reduced on the road. He said they have gone through and looked at what studies are required, what best practices are required, and they have made sure to design the intersections to the safest conditions that meet those standards. He said they would not propose something that was substandard and would not meet what the State deems are safety standards. He said they are adjusting the grades at the entrance to the roadways. He said this is a more costly way to build the roads and providing some fill with having the roadways somewhat elevated rather than tapering away from the road, it provides the person sitting in the car to be up a little higher. He said building them this way is more expensive but an improvement, he said just leaving them with a lower sight distance at the entrance is not what they want to build. Dustin said they are confident what they can provide is safe.
Mr. Brown said they have jotted things down, but the minutes can be reviewed for anything else he may have missed. He asked if a site walk was needed, and Mrs. Boxer said she would like one and would also like to hear from the engineers about the 20% grades that may be unbuildable on the lots, as the whole layout may change. Dustin said the way he read the memo was that the questions were raised but it was going to be up to the Board to see if those portions of the lots are actually buildable. He said they can provide them with those grading plans, and he anticipates the peer reviewer will leave the discretion to the Board and making sure it meets the intent of the ordinance. He said he feels they will be back here for that decision. Mrs. Biegel said just for clarification she would like to see lots number 24, 26, 29, 30, 31, 31,32 and 33. Mr. Brown asked if those were in the Ransom report and Mrs. Biegel said there were some that had some flatter areas in front that didn’t look like such a concern to her and some that were not so flat, but she was concerned about. She said she thinks it’s totally possible but would like to see the slopes of the driveway.
Mr. Roma asked Mrs. Biegel for the lot numbers again. Mr. Brown said it’s basically all of the lots on the westerly side of the cul- de- sac road and a few on the other side that need to be addressed. Mr. Roma said they will work through and provide those. Mrs. Biegel said she thinks it’s important to keep options open because when you are planning, you are planning very futuristically. She said the easements are just easements and not a built-out road that connects other property. She said it just gives everybody options to exercise or not exercise. She said the Town just approved the funding to start the Comprehensive Plan all over again and all these smaller lots in the growth areas, are a result of the last Comprehensive Plan to be dense, and a lot of growth in the villages. She said they are starting that plan again and if people are interested, pretty soon they will hear calls for volunteers to be part of those committees and she urges you to participate. Mr. Hastings said that he urges anyone who wants to participate to reach out to the Planning Director, Zach Mosher, and he would be happy to talk to you about it. Mr. Brown said the 50-foot strip, as he understands it, would be offered to the Town. Mr. Hastings said typically the way those future connections work is the Town would have the right acquire it to develop a road if they wanted to. Mrs. Biegel said we are at a community at a crossroads because there are large landowners that have parcels like the Woodbreys and others, property is changing hands and people are making decisions. She said we are not going to stay the same and we are going to grow. Mrs. Biegel said when we talked about having smaller lots, people said we wanted to keep the rural area with larger lots and people coming into the bedroom community of Standish, they have a lot they can live on. She said that there are neighborhoods in the villages that can help create businesses in the Town centers and that is the growth area right in the heart of the village near schools, shopping centers, town hall and all those things. She said there is a reason why those lots are smaller. She said she thinks the explanation of keeping the flat area in the back is helpful to her and there is still space to expand.
Mr. Hastings asked if the Board wanted to do a site walk and all were in favor. Mrs. Biegel asked for after 4pm and Mr. Brown said there are two miles of roadway to walk through and will take a while. Mr. Brown asked if every couple hundred feet of road could be staked out or what did people want? Mr. Roma said you get into the hill as you start going down over and it was very thick earlier. Mrs. Boxer said she would be interested in seeing the steep lots that have been discussed. Mr. Brown asked about the trail on the lot and Mr. Roma told him where they could go through. Mr. Roma said they can follow the woods roads through and there is one area of wetland as they cross Eastern Road. He said they are only impacting 5000 square feet of wetlands. Mr. Roma said he would like to be there on October 29th but will be out of state. Mr. Roma said they need time to stake the road out. He said they will be able to tell the Board where they are by using the GPS. A site walk was scheduled for Saturday, November 4th, 2023, at 9:00am. Mr. Roma said there is room to park where Woodbrey Lane comes in. Mr. Hastings said there is plenty of time to work on that and Mr. Roma will get back to them.
Mr. Brown asked if anyone wanted to make the motion that the application is complete, pending additional information to be supplied. Mrs. Biegel said she is relatively new and doesn’t totally understand what it’s about. She asked if this means that they submitted all of the different elements that were asked for. Mr. Brown said its elements that are submitted or need to be amended or subject to an amendment. Mr. Roma said it just gives them the standing that they have submitted the application and it’s one step along the many steps. Mr. Brown said it does not give them approval or anything else. Mr. Wright said it’s just the things they have been given and Mr. Hastings said that it is sufficient information given to the Board to start their review. He said they have been asked for additional information for the wetlands, third party engineering review, slopes on a few of the lots, the habitats. Mr. Brown said we could just say subject to the review of improvements that have been made through the approval process and what has just been asked for. Mrs. Biegel said we know about the site distance review and that’s a huge one. Mr. Hastings said we will start with Public Works and work from there. Mrs. Boxer said this is not complete as presented. Mrs. Biegel asked how that works with a person that is also an abutter. Mr. Hastings said the Public Works Director is also an abutter to this property so they will have to take a close look at that. Mrs. Biegel said that we would probably also need a peer review for that. Mr. Hastings said the third-party reviewer has already looked at this and he will make sure they get their comments on it. He said he is assuming where they didn’t specifically address it, they do not have any concerns with it. Mrs. Biegel said with especially the feedback they are hearing. Mr. Hastings asked if someone wanted to make a motion for completeness with the conditions as out laid. Mr. Wright made the motion seconded by Mr. Nappi. Mr. Hastings said that more is needed to complete a review and Mrs. Biegel said she would like to revisit some things. Mr. Brown said that anything can be revisited. All in favor, with one abstaining. Mr. Hastings asked if the Board would like to table this for after the site walk. Mr. Roma said their plan would be to get everything together for the November meeting. He said they submitted this to the Army Corp. of Engineers. Mr. Brown made a motion seconded by Mr. Nappi to table this until the next meeting. All in favor with one abstaining.
- Patrick Michaud and 5 Brothers Development, Cider Mill Lane, Map 35, Lot 34 11-Subdivision Application to build Brookstone Condominiums at Cortland Place-10 Units
Dustin Roma from D.M. Roma Consulting Engineers was present to represent the applicants. He said that they are proposing to build on Lot # 11 along with land set aside for another potential phase, they are proposing to merge those two properties back together and not create anymore lots within the subdivision or extending the road for frontage purposes. This would make a 4.6-acre parcel for this project, with Lot # 11 and the set aside property being merged back together. Dustin said that property has had numerous recent amendments from the Board. He said the most recent plan shows a right of way extension going through the future phase in two different directions, so it extended to the back of the property and made a 90-degree turn. He said it is his understanding that the 90-degree turn was to extend the block length, and the extension off the end was to provide another potential right of way for a future extension to other property. He said it does provide an extension to two other lots that are owned by another entity. He said this is two tax lots, but one owner.
Dustin said that one of the reasons for being here tonight is to retain the portion of the 90-degree angle and eliminate the right of way for going off the end of the property. Dustin said what is being proposed is the roadway extension, called Cortland Place, is being proposed to being built out as a private driveway, giving way to 9 single family condominium units. He said the portion of the right of way off the public roadway would all be private. He said the stream crossing would have a culvert and the road construction would be the same as Cider Mill Lane. He said that it is his understanding that the private drive could become a public road in the future if the land was to be developed. He said they are designing the pavement to meet public road standards if the Town wanted to exercise their right to take over the road.
He said they are proposing a 10-unit condominium development. He said they looked at different options like multi family units or duplexes, or separate single family standing units. He said they felt that the single-family unit style is best in keeping character with the neighborhood that has already been established there. He said this proposal is the best for this neighborhood and they are proposing a single home on lot 11 very similar to the already existing homes. He said the other 9 units at the end of the road are in a tighter configuration. He has provided some architectural drawings and it’s the same style as what is through the neighborhood with gables, front porches, garages. He said there are some units that have two bedrooms, and some are three. He said the homes would essentially be the same, but with different options for the outside.
Dustin said they do have a wastewater disposal system for all the 9 units, with septic tanks in front of the buildings. He said they would collect the affluent waste from the tanks and the sewer collection would be in the roadway and the wastewater would pump to a combined leach field. He said they have found some space that would be suitable if this system should fail and need to be replaced in the future. He showed where the double leach field and tanks are. He said when you have a single system used for combined units, it’s also very important to have another space available if replacement needs to happen if needed.
Dustin said they met with the Public Works Director on the site. They wanted to be sure he is comfortable with plowing and snow removal, off a private drive, off the end of a public road when its accepted. He said the Public Works Director was fine with what they are proposing and felt they could push snow off the hammerhead area to the right and not leave a big pile at the end of the road. He said they did provide an additional hammerhead just because it’s a substantial distance away from the one on Cider Mill Lane. He said they felt it necessary so trucks and emergency vehicles could turn around as well.
Dustin said they have designed a storm water filter basin that will take the runoff from the majority of the newly built road and treat the water before its discharged into the wetlands. He said each of the buildings will have storm drip edges and they are very closely mimicking the drainage system that is in place there now. He said they have provided these plans to the Portland Water District, and they have provided approval for that. He said Lot 11 had already been approved for public water and they will be installing a meter pit just outside the pavement out of the right of way. He said they will have a pit that houses the meter for all water to the proposed homes. He said the Water District preferred to see the meter pit coming off the end of the road. He said they made that revision but didn’t provide it in the packets.
Dustin said there were some comments raised about village housing on the site plan and after discussions with Mr. Hastings, they revised their approach with single family condominium housing instead of the village housing. He said as far as the stream crossing goes, they have submitted all required permits to the DEP and Army Corp. of Engineers. He said this is a permit by rule for the crossing and both are Army Corp.of Engineers and DEP. He said there is some wetlands fill and they have submitted an upper tier-1 for that as well. He said they are just slightly over 40 feet footage, and wanted to make sure they were submitted. Dustin said power will be underground and they are in the process with CMP designing the electrical feed to the project with two pad mount transformers to the project. He said there is an existing transformer across the street on the former Lot 11 and this will be utilized for that building. They will have lights installed on the buildings and the driveways will be only about 20 feet long. They felt that individual mounted lights that are pointed down are sufficient for each driveway and for the hammerhead turn around. He said they might install post lights in front of the units if desired or toward the end of the road. He said that they would have shielded style, down facing lights on posts if that is what is wanted. They would be small and decorative.
Dustin said they have designed the site to accommodate snow storage straight off the end of the roadway and around the perimeter of each building. He said that both sides of the hammerhead have some room for snow storage. He said the basin filter is straight off the back of the hammerhead, so they don’t want to push snow there. He said they have a guardrail proposed by the street crossing and they are also going to extend the sidewalk over the culvert crossing where it would end if the roadway were to be built out to the 90-degree turn. He said they have talked with Planning about the most logical spot to end the sidewalk and this is what they have proposed. He said it would end there or be extended if the road is ever extended. Dustin said it didn’t make sense to go into the neighborhood with the sidewalk as there would be very slow-moving traffic and no pass-through traffic. He said if they were to extend it any further it would look like a wide paved road.
Dustin said that is the summary of where they are and feel they have provided sufficient information for the Board to review. Mr. Hastings said he has a couple of errors in his memo. He said under completeness he has Village Housing and should have been for condo units. He said the other one was under the site plan review criteria, Page 4, under L. He said he did not have the final submission for the project and that should be omitted. He said this is not relevant to this application and he should have put non applicable. He said that Dustin has given a good presentation and has sat down with Public Works already and gone over the road connection and they see no concerns. He said the Public Safety has no issues either and they are very appreciative of the additional hammerhead turn around in the middle of the denser housing which is a bigger size that they can turn a truck around in.
Mr. Hastings said the only other major thing is, the applicant is still waiting for the actual formal letter from the bank that holds the mortgage on the lot that had the amendment on the lot line. He said because of the way the ordinance is written, they cannot grant approval for this project, the subdivision change, or the site plan change until the Town has that letter. He said tonight is, do you have any major concerns, do you want to do a site walk, do you want a third-party review of the engineering or has what has been submitted sufficient?
Mr. Brown said this 46-foot road drives him crazy and do they need the two ten-foot drainage easements? He said if it’s not on there and too narrow, if they can’t use it then they don’t need it. Mr. Hastings said it was something he needed to talk to Dustin about but had not had a chance. He said this is typically measured out as 50-foot road and they have 46, he is not sure why. Mr. Brown said they added two ten-foot drainage easements and if the Town takes it over, they will own it. Mr. Hastings said there is less infrastructure in this application in terms of the drainage. Mr. Brown said he thinks it protects us and is still within the setbacks of the original subdivision. Mr. Roma said they have no objection to showing those on the plan and Mr. Brown told him that would be good. Mr. Roma said they can do it on one side but can’t convey it on the other, as the right of way only follows one side. Mr. Brown said they can shorten the road by five feet and Mr. Roma said he will speak with Public Works about this. Mr. Brown asked if this was going to be a separate subdivision plan and recorded in the registry as an amended subdivision plan. Mr. Roma said he was going to talk to Mr. Hastings about doing this as an amended subdivision plan or do they amend the overall plan.
Mr. Brown said they need to change “for the record owner” in the title block as the Registry will not take it. Mr. Roma said they will list both the applicant and the owner and have a seal on it as well. Mr. Brown said the test pits on Lot 11 are not shown as well as the test pits down in the subdivision on the condo units. Dustin said they have new HHE200’s for each unit, so they can put those in. Mr. Brown asked about a portion of the driveway into unit one that is in the Town right of way. He said in the past they have asked for those driveways to be outside of the right of ways. Mr. Roma said they can put a jog in it and get it out of the right of way. Mrs. Biegel asked Mr. Roma to explain it and he showed what they would do and where (he was away from the microphone and could not be heard on the audio). He said this was near the hammerhead area. Mrs. Biegel asked what exactly on the map would be taken over and Mr. Roma said nothing that is colored. Mr. Hastings said on the plan, nothing would be immediately conveyed to the Town but the right of way continuing off the roadway and around the corner would be the future connection easement that they talked about in the last project. Mrs. Biegel asked about the end of those nine condo units, what happens with that? Mr. Roma said the way it’s designed would be a private drive going through there and they had talked about if there is an interest in pedestrians walking through there, they can write something up for that to occur.
Mr. Roma said the road is designed to meet Town standards and it would be a big benefit for the Town to own the road in front of the condo units. Mrs. Biegel said for another example of a major landowner that recently passed away, who knows what will happen to that property. She said they talk about inner connectiveness giving people options. She said this kind of situation will become more frequent in Standish and personally she said she would like to see the sidewalk go all the way across to the condo units and it seems silly to have it end there. She said if there was ever a roadway put there, they could change it. She said she would like to see some way to make it connectable if abutters ever chose to connect. Mr. Walton said they have one and Mrs. Biegel said she is just proposing a question. Mr. Roma said that they looked at it and because it’s the same owner that surrounds it, they looked at the 90 degree turn and the wetlands and running the right of way along the wetlands. He said they looked at different options and developing one side with this would preserve the lot length. He said if you go further out, it would just be a block length and a dead end.
Mrs. Biegel said she is wondering why it has to be either or? Mr. Roma said if it ends up just being two roads, it ends up utilizing the whole area and they are trying to keep the condo units with their infrastructure intact. He said it didn’t leave much opportunity for development, especially with the block length the Town is trying to keep in those areas. Mr. Walton said he would like to see the sidewalk extended all the way to the condos also. Mr. Roma asked if the Board would be open to a wider pavement in that area because this would alter the drainage plan. He said he doesn’t want to add curbing because of the runoff. He said they could tip the sidewalk a bit, not add curbing or raise it up. Mr. Walton said he and Mrs. Biegel want to see it go across the right of way to the driveway of Unit 2.
Mr. Roma said that they could tip the sidewalk down and just run it flush and it would be basically a 27-foot-wide roadway through there. He said he does not see a scenario down there if the road would extend through there and it would be cut up. Mr. Brown asked if this triggers stormwater for the development. Mr. Roma said he doesn’t believe so as they submitted all the documents they were supposed to. Mrs. Biegel said to help her understand this, instead of the curb going up, it would be cut going down? Mr. Roma said that anywhere a sidewalk meets a driveway, they slope it down and make it wider to the first driveway. He said if they are going to be concentrating on more drainage flow, the more curbing they would be putting in and this would alter the stormwater.
Mrs. Boxer asked if they could use a cement box culvert for the stream crossing like they are doing now everywhere. She said this is much better for everything. Mr. Roma said they are right at the headwaters of what they consider a stream, and this is a very large wetland that is uphill from this. He said this is a big floodplain area and when it rains, the whole area starts to channelize, goes downstream a bit, and then disperses into the wetlands. He said it meets the definition of a stream crossing but it doesn’t define the definition of a continuous stream with a fish passage and other things. He said the big box culverts are where you would be worried about fish and other wildlife. He said this culvert would be upstream with the wetlands on either side. He said as far as the box culvert, its very disruptive to go into the stream and pour footings. He said in certain instances it’s needed, but in instances like this, it’s not really needed. Mr. Roma said this is a flat culvert that stays in place with shallow gravel in it with the water running over the gravel. Mr. Roma said this is standard with the DEP and Army Corp. of Engineers. He said if you wanted to do permit by rule, that would be for the box culvert. Mrs. Boxer asked about the septic where it’s so close to the wetland, would they need to get permits for those. Mr. Roma said when you backfill over a wetland and that slope gets close to a septic, permit by rule through DEP is needed.
Mrs. Boxer asked about Section 13, did they have all the permits when they applied for this. She said section 13 was about sensitive environmental areas and can they include this? Mr. Roma said they can provide that. Mr. Brown said they can’t do anything tonight and Mr. Hastings said there is information the Board has asked for. Mrs. Biegel asked if there is a landscape plan to go with the condos. Mr. Roma said they were envisioning some plantings around the buildings like foundation plantings. He said because of the number of underground utilities, wires, power, etc. that they do not have a lot of room for street trees or other shrubs. Mr. Gere asked about the units and how many would be 2 bedrooms and 3 bedrooms. Mr. Roma said the units back toward the wetlands would be 2 bedrooms and the others would be 3. Mr. Brown said that adds up quickly. Mrs. Boxer asked about the shared septic, does someone have to have insurance. Mr. Roma said where there will be condos, there will be a pump station and all the forced lines collection systems. He said where everything is shared, it will be covered under the umbrella policy the condominium will have. Mr. Brown said it would probably be a homeowner’s association. Mrs. Biegel asked about the homeowner’s association and Mr. Hastings said the Board would really like to see a draft of the homeowner’s association documents. He said they require it for subdivisions and people signing it know what their responsibilities are.
Mr. Hastings said the developers structure their homeowner’s association and fees themselves and if there is a problem with it, the Town lets them know. He said the fees they pay are a help to maintain their infrastructure. Mr. Nappi said this project, the overall development, has been before the Board at least five times. He said it seems odd to him that the same project keeps coming back several times with changes along the way. He asked if this is the last piece of development of this project. Mr. Roma said if you drive through the development now, there are a few unbuilt lots, and this is complete development in his opinion of this lot. He said what was conceived on this property, he doesn’t see any other opportunities on this property. Mr. Nappi said it just seems like it’s never ending with changes along the way.
Tom Daniels from 5 Brothers Development said that they have been here a few times, but some of the amendments they have come back for, have been as simple as moving a lot line. Tom said sometimes the house got built a little differently and the septic systems might need to be placed somewhere else, but those were minor changes. He said if you look at the subdivision as you drive down now and its completeness. He said almost everything else is the same as what was originally proposed. He said Dustin hasn’t been part of the whole thing and he felt he needed to explain.
Mr. Brown asked for other questions from the Board. He opened the hearing to the public.
Brendon Brendensteiner-19 Cider Mill. He said the traffic flow is tight off from Rt.35 to Apple Lane and onto Cider Mill. He said if you look at the map versus the number of acres, 4 acres would be 6 buildings and he said now we are talking another 10. He said what was originally planned based on the original subdivision, it will take substantial fill to get back there, and he said this will fill up the wetlands and he hoped they do not dam up the wetlands as it goes down and then back up. He said it will come back onto the lots already built on. He asked if the septic and leach field need power as they are going to have pumps. He said it’s up to someone to watch that power so that those systems keep working. He said some trees will be removed and he feels this should be considered for the habitat. He said that water pressure is already weak going down through and the number of units it goes to is a lot. He said he is not an engineer but cannot get a sprinkler to rotate because of low pressure. He feels that it will be expensive to have a lot more traffic and there will be many more students walking to the bus stop on Bonny Eagle Road, where you can’t turn into Cider Mill. He said there are many things to consider.
Anthony Folsom-Dolloff Road said his concern is about the school buses coming down Cider Mill and not being able to turn. He said with the water in these developments, that is a steep hill for those fire trucks to be coming down bringing water and that road should have hydrants and make the lines bigger if they need to.
Wendy Bredensteiner- 19 Cider Mill. Said they have been in their house for almost two years and there has been constant construction which seems almost endless. She said the construction equipment parks on the roads now and makes it hard to get out and go to work. Where will they park when this starts and how many years will this take? She said they can’t park up in there if it’s all wetlands. She said she can’t imagine getting a fire truck down there or an ambulance. She said the water pressure is a concern and now they will add more houses. She said she wonders if their house were on fire, could they save it? She said when they moved in, they were told the added houses would be a 55 plus community and she hasn’t heard anything about that tonight. She said they pay into the HOA for them to clear the streets and for maintaining the storm drains. She said they are going to completely remove their trees and they were told they would not be removed. She said the amount of traffic is a lot and now adding more cars will be too much. She asked if this road is private, will they be able to still walk that property or will it be private.
Spencer-21 Cider- he said he understands Standish is growing but if you check the street out and a truck is parked out on the street its impossible to get through. He said if they add all this additional traffic, it will be a nightmare. He said if the trees are removed, the view will be different. He said everything they bought is being taken away.
Sandy-21 Cider Mill-she said the street is probably wide enough, but not if someone is parked out on the street. She said she likes the esthetics, but with the trees being taken down, it will ruin the esthetics, and this is not what they signed up for. She said it doesn’t feel the road was built to handle this much traffic.
19 Cider Mill-she said she looks at the landscaping and the ditch between them fills with stormwater, there is erosion around the street and no trees have been planted, no landscaping, no streetlights on Cider Mill. She said to build a higher density neighborhood seems unfair to those that are already there.
A motion was made by Mr. Gere to close the public hearing and seconded. All in favor.
Mr. Gere asked about the road width and Mr. Hastings said the 22-foot-wide road is the standard. Mr. Roma said he did ask the Public Works director when they met on site if he would be agreeable to letting them install the sloped curbing. He said the curbing is very restrictive and the sloped curbing would allow for plows to move up over it and he said the Public Works director agreed that it would be better. He said they will transition to the sloped. Mrs. Boxer asked about rules for landscaping for streets in our town and isn’t this part of it in the form-based code. Mr. Hastings said there are a few things where you have a sidewalk on one side and an undefined rain garden on the other. He said aside from that there is no landscaping tied to the street. Mr. Roma said they would put a landscape plan together so it’s clear what is being proposed.
Mrs. Biegel said the thing about the sloped curbing is that so many do not pay attention when driving and that’s why we have sidewalks. She said so suddenly you have a distracted driver that veers off to the side, and that’s a lot of reason to have a curb. Mr. Walton said the reason why we don’t see them is that we do not protect the people on them. Mr. Roma said there is no best street and roads that are designed with long curbs and are wide, then people drive too fast. He said the road that is there now in Cider Mill has the feel to make traffic go slow. He said roads with no curbing and gravel shoulders, people are driving 35mph through the neighborhood. Mr. Walton asked where visitors would park at the condos and Mr. Roma said each unit has a garage bay and the driveways are 22 feet wide so each one has three parking spaces, two in the garage and one outside. After three cars, they would park in the road.
Mrs. Biegel said that is typical in a lot of neighborhoods. Mr. Walton said maybe in the condo rules it might say they can have just so many visitors. Mr. Brown said the original subdivision went all the way to the water tower and then back down. Mr. Roma said when they designed the project, the Water District dictates how many fixtures there will be for the units. He said they gave them fixture count worksheets with how many toilets, how many sinks and everything including outside spigots. He said they take that information and figure out what the demand will be for water supply and then they look at their model. He said they will not give you water service unless they can supply adequate pressure as its against their charter. He said if there is not adequate pressure, they have you sign a waiver that you will provide your own pressure to the water. He said they reviewed all the plans and are satisfied with what they will be providing for water pressure.
Mr. Roma said the water district doesn’t want to get a call after the fact from customers about the water pressure and they go out and test it after. Mr. Nappi asked if the fixture count today was any different from when the original analysis was done. Mr. Roma said that being able to turn on an irrigation system is not something the water district uses for their baseline for pressure flow. He said that sometimes people do have problems with marginal water pressure and may have to pressurize their own for irrigation. He said this is not the same as providing pressure for showers and household use. Mr. Brown said the hydrant is not far from the turnaround with a 12-inch line feeding it. Mr. Roma said that the pumper trucks will take what they need out of the hydrant. He said the amount of water is not an issue. He said the Fire Department indicated they were satisfied with what they are proposing from their review of the plan. He said the Fire Department is satisfied with being able to maneuver around the site and the fire protection being supplied. Mr. Brown asked about sprinklers and Mr. Roma told him that these are all single-family houses and are not required. Mr. Brown asked about the letter from the bank and was it in progress. Mr. Hastings said he believed it was and did the Board want to have a site walk. A site walk was scheduled for Tuesday, October 17, 2023, at 5:15pm. Mr. Roma asked what the Board would like staked out and Mr. Brown said by the hammerhead, where the road extension will go through and another where the front corners of each building will be. Mr. Roma said that the septic’s are already staked out and there is a bridge over the wetlands for access.
Mr. Hastings asked if there was anything else the Board wanted to see. Mr. Roma said the lots have all been cut and should be okay. Tom Daniels said he wanted to address a couple of things he heard tonight. He said they are going to try to preserve access to the trail system as a lot of the homeowners had mentioned that they do go through there. He said that they were in the process of getting permission from a landowner, that had just passed away, to get access to the walking trail through his property. He said another concern that he thinks the Board understands, is that the Town created this road at a certain width, when they were approved for the subdivision and he remembers the comments from the Board at the time, that people would be parking on the roadside, and this would keep the speed of the traffic down. He said it’s not necessarily okay with the homeowners but sometimes you need a trade with a narrower road with cars parking on it. He said these were not their choices, but something the Town had wanted. He said he feels the homeowners are excited to be in the subdivision and they do have some more construction with phase three going on, but this was planned from day amount of traffic has not increased and lot one was always going to have a house on it. He said they feel that some did not know their real intention with the plan but felt he should make it clear that nothing has really changed. Mr. Brown asked if the water district had certain water pressures and do they check them every now and then. Mr. Roma said they do hydrant pressure tests and Mr. Brown asked if the pressure in the houses would be too high and were there relief valves. Mr. Roma said no but he is not surprised about the irrigation having pressure too low. He said there is plenty of water available but may not be suitable pressure.
Mr. Brown said the Board is waiting for the letter from the bank, landscaping plan, DEP report and Mr. Hastings said some wildlife habitat information as well as which units have what number of bedrooms. He said lighting was brought up and formal language about having access to the walking trails. Mr. Brown said maybe something as easy as an easement. Mrs. Biegel said this is one of the projects that have the stone rip rap like all over Standish and she feels it’s an eyesore. Mr. Gere said if you are trying to slow water flow down, rip rap is more suitable for surface treatment. He said you can build steep slopes and grass it. Mrs. Biegel said that for homeowners to maintain it would be hard. She wanted to know if the Town would be taking care of it over. Mr. Roma said that this rip rap is only on the steep embankments and around the culverts. He said this is something they must do per DEP. Mr. Hastings said this should be tabled until they have the letter from the bank. A motion was made by Mrs. Boxer and seconded by Mr. Nappi. All in favor.
A motion was made by Mr. Gere to adjourn seconded by Mr. Brown and Mrs. Boxer. All in favor.